Roadies:Stop moaning and start behaving!

[Windbreaker]

 

There are ACCEPTABLE STANDARDS that every cyclist knows.

 

These may be differant to RULES - for various reasons' date=' sure its legal to take up the entire lane, but its not motoring friendly, its not safe ,its not condusive to public relations and its not going to be much of a saving grace when the police tell your wife and kids, "unfortunately your husband collected a 40 tonner, but the good news is, he was legally in the middle of the road".!

 

Its quite simple -

 

1)Dont ride more than two abreast.

2)Keep left, irrespective of traffic congestion OR lack of it - make it a habit to ride on the left of the road - the yellow line is immaterial, 90% of my training is on roads without a yellow line. If its there - hey use it.!

3)Keep your hands on the bars - no abusive sign language.

4)Put a foot down at every stop street.

5)Dont jump red lights.

6)Make yourself visible at any time.

7)Use a light at dusk or early morning - actually use it all day.

8)Be pleasant and friendly to other road users.

 

More than that we cant really do and I doubt any motorist would expect more.

 

Its very simple, its very basic and its very clear cut.

 

[/quote']

Then we agree on most issues, and all that matter.

 

[GoLefty!!]

 

Because riding in the yellow lane is probably a safer place to be though' date=' this is one aspect of the law often overlooked by law enforcers and road users alike.

 

If a rider is keeping as far left as the law demands, and is practical and safe (obviously you may swerve to avoid obstacles), other road users may not demand of them to move over until it is safe for you to do so.  They may of course indicate and overtake as they would any other vehicle.

 

[/quote']
So after beign prepared to refer me to the various publications supporting what we MAY NOT do as cyclists you are not accepting that COMPROMISE is actually the right thing to do. i.e. that riding in the yellow line is the correct thing to do.

To take this further -

I feel that on certain roads it may be the safer option to occupy the whole lane - or at least enough of it so as to prevent other vehicles from endangering your safety by passing where it is unsafe to do so and potentially forcing you into the gutter. I also feel that in some circumstances it is SAFER for cyclists to ride in a tight group as opposed to being strung out in an long extended line.

Note that in the second instance I am also taking the opinion that it is actually less obstructive to other motorists to do so.

I am dead against people quoting regulations for no other reason than to justify their particular (sh*t-stirring) stance such as BigH so often does.

 

 

Windy dude, I think what you're talking about is using common sense when on the bike.

I doubt anyone disputes that but this is not some sort of license to bend the law.

 

E.g when riding along the Atlantic seaboard, the road is narrow and twisty. Around blind corners I move over more than 1m from the verge but I indicate to following cars that that is what I am doing.

Most intelligent / diligent drivers understand this and are accomodating. The female yacking away on her mobile phone while driving does not even know I'm there so in this case, I only have the law to protect me.

 

Thats a lotto think about, but the foundaion f any cyclists actions should be what the law allows you to do.

[Windbreaker]

R2S2, I never stated that cyclists are currently ALLOWED to occupy the full lane. I am saying that in some circumstances I think that it is actually safer and less obstructive to traffic if they acted as a single compact organism about the size of a slow moving truck (for example) as opposed to a long drawn out obstruction.

 

But most of us are so focussed on protecting our particular stance, whatever that is, just for the sake of argument that we aren't open to even considering suggestions like this. We see two or more cyclists in a bunch and we are ready to condemn them!

 

I participate in group rides every weekend and I take my share of responsibility in order to keep the group on the "right side of the law" with a healthy dose of common sense so don't take the opinion that I am an anarchist or that I condone blatant bad behavior. I don't and it is wrong!

 

 

 

[Guest Big H]

Quoted from:- Windbreaker

 

I am dead against people quoting regulations for no other reason than to justify their particular (sh*t-stirring) stance such as BigH so often does.

The Big H has NO stance or opinion,  he is merely your conscience. Love it or leave it!!!!!!

 

PS I love you too!!!!!

[Windbreaker]

 

Thats a lotto think about' date=' but the foundaion f any cyclists actions should be what the law allows you to do.

[/quote']

No, 'cause if this is your guiding principle then you are NOT ALLOWED TO RIDE IN THE YELLOW LANE. I am sure that you ride in the yellow lane. I know that I do.

 

I am actually advocating that the cycling associations, clubs etc lobby the government to review all the laws pertaining to cyclists - because they are outdated, unenforceable and inappropriate in some instances. Also some of the the common sense stuff should be brought into law. But even more pressing is to introduce laws which specifically protect cyclists and other vulnerable road users, (e.g. minimum safe passing distance) simply because we are so vulnerable against a ton or more of steel.

 

In anticipation of the flamers - Note that I am again in no way advocating blatant misbehaviour by cyclists in any form.... ok???

 

[Windbreaker]

 

Quoted from:- Windbreaker

 

I am dead against people quoting regulations for no other reason than to justify their particular (sh*t-stirring) stance such as BigH so often does.

The Big H has NO stance or opinion' date='  he is merely your conscience. Love it or leave it!!!!!!

 

PS I love you too!!!!!

[/quote']

 

Oh BigH, how noble of you to take the responsibility of being my conscience - except I don't need it thanks. I did a good job of testing my conscience extensively in my youth and it is quite healthy.

 

Must say, this thing of referring to yourself in the third person is really quite a nice touch, if somewhat pompous and arrogant sounding.

 

 

[Guest Big H]

Gaan drink NOU DADELIK jou makmaak pilletjies!!!!!!! Jy drup skuim die hele wereld vol!!!!!!!

[Windbreaker]

Ja Baas! Asseblief Baas, moet my nis slaan nie Baas. Ek doen dit nie weer nie Baas.

[The Saint]

Hopefully I can bring some sanity to this conversation. When a road is built it is specifically built for use by Trucks, Buses and Cars and not bicycles. Should they have been built for the use of bicycles there would be bicycle lanes, like we have on some roads in Alberton (which the cyclists never use) or as on Jan Smuts, note the Bus lane. So bearing this in mind if you are out of your domain you need to abide by the rules of the people whoose domain it is.

 

Therefore if you are on your bicycle on a road you need to abide by the rules governing the purpose for which the road was built and the majority of the users in other words Trucks, Buses & Cars. It is much like going to another country and not observing the customs and cultures of the locals or blamming The Shark for taking a chunk out of someone swimming close to the beach. The sea is not our domain and neither are the roads so we need to be aware that when not in your domain there are possible consequences that could result in death.

 

As an added proof to this fact the most deaths on South African roads are those of pedestrians - not motorists or cyclists.

 

I am a roadie and prefer to have cars hoot at me as they are then aware of me, as for abiding by the rules of the road, definately - swimming in the sea - never, that's why we invented swimming pools and baths.

 

Until roadies have an alternative it is exactly like swimming in the sea - danger is everywhere and doing your best to ensure that danger does not come your way is your own responsibility and abiding by road rules goes at least some way to avoiding an accident.

[shaunh]

Well put MuXmAn!!!

[Windbreaker]

 

MuXMan,

 

If you are so adamant about obeying the rules (as they stand) then you must not ride in the the yellow lane ... ever again. Right???

 

No, cause it obviously makes no sense to follow this rule.

 

I disagree with your assertion that the road is not our domain. Yes some roads are not our domain, nor the domain of any other non-motorised traffic i.e. the freeways.

 

But when did the other roads become "not our domain"? In some cases where we have cycle lanes they are occupied by cars when it suits them.

 

I pay tax. I pay for the building and maintenance of those roads. The roads have become unsafe for my use. I want the laws of the country to be changed to allow me to safely CONTINUE to make use of these roads. In France and the Netherlands (and many other European countries) MOTOR VEHICLES HAVE THE OBLIGATION OF ENSURING THE SAFETY OF CYCLISTS AND PEDESTRIANS WHEN THEY COME WITHIN A CLOSE PROXIMITY OF THEM.

 

It seems to me that they have got it right. The roads are the domain of all road users and all road users accept each other as being valid users.

 

My suggestions

a) Make the yellow line for cyclist use only. Enforce this law.

b) Pass a law that a motor vehicle may not come within 1.5m of any cyclist at any time, but with a particular emphasis on passing. Enforce this law.

c) Reconsider the single file law. In some cases it is actually better for all road users that the cyclists act as a compact group as opposed to a long strung out line. Passing a tight group is about as difficult as passing a slow truck or horse & cart. Passing a long line of cyclists can be a very challenging task if you have any consideration for the cyclist safety.

 

Educate ALL ROAD users that cyclists have a right to be on the road and they have a right to be safe. Educate cyclists specifically that along with these rights come responsibilities.

Windbreaker2007-03-20 13:49:49

[The Saint]

Valid points indeed but until your suggestions become a reality, the road is not our domain as the laws you have suggested do not protect us. To suggest not riding in the yellow line albeit against the law is suicide.

 

As I have stated being aware of the danger and taking the necessary precautions is each persons own responsibility as the laws which you have suggested do not exist.

 

Our wonderful police force could not enforce a piss up in a brewary nevermind the laws you have suggested. Probably 30% of our population are in possesion of fraudulant drivers licenses - I am sure you can see where I am going with this and until the bigger picture is taken care of I can hardly see how the traffic department is going to enforce a 1.5 meter passing distance when they cannot even apprehend a drunk driver at 6am plowinging into stationary cyclists on the side of the road.

 

Until this happens and is a reality the road is just not your domain no matter how much tax you pay.

[Warped]

Well said, Windbreaker. I agree 100% and would add better enforcement of moving violations and offenses such as drunken driving.

[Guest Big H]

Windbreaker, You are using an unlicensed vehicle on public roads. If we can pay a license AND be identifyable we can legally start claiming rights.

[The Saint]

Let us simplify the domain theory.

 

The 94.7 / Argus / Tour de France has total road closure therefore the road belongs to the cyclists = cyclist domain = no cyclist deaths due to being hit by Bus, Truck or Car.

 

Everyday life has no road closure therefore road belongs to motor vehicle = motor vehicle domain = at least 1 cyclist death per week due to being hit by Bus, Truck or Car = lion no competiton to elephant bull = no brainer = no competition to 1 ton car or 20 ton  truck = it is up to cyclist to be vigilant = it is not your domain = obey road rules = if not face consequences = end of subject.

[Warped]

Windbreaker' date=' You are using an unlicensed vehicle on public roads. If we can pay a license AND be identifyable we can legally start claiming rights. [/quote']

 

Uncle H, I'd gladly pay a licence (like we used to - remember?) and carry my CGC (or equivalent) ID if it means we can demand our rights.