Why you are not welcome in the cradle

[linnega]

why is humility so hard to find?

because most hubbers couldn't find it at CRC?

totalcycling.com ?

You people disgust me - whats wrong with Chris Willemse Cycles!!!

they don't have a special on humility?

Is it even available in South Africa?  I'm gonna give Julius a call...linnega2009-11-11 06:05:23

[Tumbleweed]

why is humility so hard to find?

because most hubbers couldn't find it at CRC?

totalcycling.com ?

You people disgust me - whats wrong with Chris Willemse Cycles!!!

they don't have a special on humility?

 

Is it even available in South Africa?? I'm gonna give Julius a call...

 

 

 

he'll most probably tell you it's a colonial concept and there is no pedi word for it...

 

 

 

you used to be able to get it from the vatican, but those days are over.

 

 

 

i googled recipes for humble pie, but, i have to humbly admit, came up blank...

[Slowbee]

Cant we get some of the hubettes to bake us some pie ? A nice humble apple pie.

[Tumbleweed]

Cant we get some of the hubettes to bake us some pie ? A nice humble apple pie.

 

 

apart from apples, the other ingredients aren't locally available...

[Danger Dassie]

HR, will it be safe to drive with bicycles on a bike rack through the cradle tomorrow morning? We might be attacked by rabid cyclists and residents alike... shocked by Ken's prod and then urinated on by some lycra clad cyclist!

 

I say this all tongue cheek y the way, in case some over sensitive type gives me 6 paragraphs of verbal.

[Tumbleweed]

HR' date=' will it be safe to drive with bicycles on a bike rack through the cradle tomorrow morning? We might be attacked by rabid cyclists and residents alike... shocked by Ken's prod and then urinated on by some lycra clad cyclist!

 

?

 

I say this all tongue cheek y the way, in case some over sensitive type gives me 6 paragraphs of verbal.

[/quote']

 

 

 

that's why we're taking your jeep! luckily i've read most of this and the other thread, otherwise the things about ken's prod and urinating might have been miscontrued

 

 

 

hey, what time does the place open?

[Danger Dassie]

I don't know... I'm just a photographer, you're the bloody journalist.

I do know that it opens in the morning, lets work it around that...

[Slowbee]

eeerrrmm morning is that anytime between 11H00 and 11H59?

 

 

 

[Danger Dassie]

eeerrrmm morning is that anytime between 11H00 and 11H59?

 

Depends on what goes down the night before ...

[Slowbee]

 

eeerrrmm morning is that anytime between 11H00 and 11H59?

 

Depends on what goes down the night before ...

 

just better not be a night ride or we will see more hospital pics

 

 

[synergy]

I am a resident in the Cradle Area and firmly believe in live and let live.  The conflict between the residents and the cyclist has escalated to such an extent that intervention is urgently required.  I neither side with the residents nor the cyclists. 

 

I believe that the Cradle of Humankind Mangement committed needs to step in here and find a suitable solution to the issues.  They were the ones who defined the area as a World Heritage Site and tourist area.  Tourism is responsible for the increase in the number of cars, people, pedestrians, cyclist, bikers etc.    

 

When the roads were tarred, the Management Authority promised the local residents that there would be suitable cycling lanes.  I do not call dotting the yellow line a suitable cycling lane.  Not only is the surface uneven, but also unsafe.  There should be a yellow line / lane AND a cycling lane that cannot be accessed by a motorised vehicle.  The reason for the sub-standard lane was that they had run out of finance.  (yet SA spends a fortune on other sports). 

 

It is time to hold the Authorities accountable for decent Management of The Cradle of Humankind World Heritage Site. 

[scotty]

I am a resident in the Cradle Area and firmly believe in live and let live.  The conflict between the residents and the cyclist has escalated to such an extent that intervention is urgently required.  I neither side with the residents nor the cyclists. 

 

I believe that the Cradle of Humankind Mangement committed needs to step in here and find a suitable solution to the issues.  They were the ones who defined the area as a World Heritage Site and tourist area.  Tourism is responsible for the increase in the number of cars' date=' people, pedestrians, cyclist, bikers etc.    

 

When the roads were tarred, the Management Authority promised the local residents that there would be suitable cycling lanes.  I do not call dotting the yellow line a suitable cycling lane.  Not only is the surface uneven, but also unsafe.  There should be a yellow line / lane AND a cycling lane that cannot be accessed by a motorised vehicle.  The reason for the sub-standard lane was that they had run out of finance.  (yet SA spends a fortune on other sports). 

 

It is time to hold the Authorities accountable for decent Management of The Cradle of Humankind World Heritage Site. 

[/quote']

IMO this is what's called for, non confrontational and understanding of the issues with desire to find a solution.

[IanC]

Synergy

This is the best comment on this thread so far.

Maybe the cyclists and residents should stop threatining each other and stop the name calling. They can then start working together to find a solution and start putting presure on the authorities to sort the problem. 

[bruce]

Synergy unfortunately, segregated cycling is not the solution to the issues in the Cradle.  There seem to be many well-meaning proponants of segregated cycling here on the forum, but it is not the solution for a number of reasons:

- it is very expensive - the building of bike specific lanes is expensive, and therefore will never be completed adequately.  Even in the cradle, the bike lanes are only built for part of the area, and as you say, were stopped because of funds.  The bike lanes are built on the cheap, and hence are not even suitable for riding a bike (apart from a dual suspension bike).

- They collect a lot of debris and glass.  The reason why the main road surface is free of glass is because cars drive there!  Tyres crush the glass down small enough to either be washed away, embedded (picked up) by the car tyres, or too small to cause punctures.  Any experienced cyclist knows that the best place to cycle is a little bit into the road to avoid punctures etc.  Bike specific lanes will have to be maintained in order to be used.  Once they become full of glass, cyclists will avoid them.

- There is a lot of pedestrian traffic in the cradle.  Pedestrians walking in the bike lanes cannot be stopped, this already happens a lot.  The problem with padestrians, is that they are not predictable in behaviour, and a bicycle and a pedestrian approaching each other has a high risk of collision.  If the lane is physically separated, there is nowhere for the cyclist to go and the cyclist must slow down completely to figure out what the pedestrian will do.  As a result, cyclists will just stop riding in these lanes.

- Cycling lanes perpetuate the belief that bicycles and other traffic should be separate, creating an 'us vs. them' scenario.

 

Integrated cycling is the solution to these problems.  Unfortunately, even on the hub here, most so-called experienced cyclists are promoting the wrong behaviour.  Most of the vocal cyclists here on the hub are hammering on about segregated cycling, even though they are not even aware of it.

 

Integrated cycling requires an education process - primarily on the side of cyclists, but with motorists as well.  The number of times I have been riding alone in the Cradle, and cars approaching head on are happy to overtake, coming into my lane and missing me by less than a metre, is unbelievable.  Motorists just do not believe that cyclists have the right to be there.  And on the other hand, cyclists seem to be blissfully unaware of the basic curtesies of the road - i.e. when you are a slower moving vehicle, try to safely yeild as soon as possible to allow faster moving traffic past!

 

Everybody reading this thread, google the terms 'integrated cycling', 'vehicular cycling', 'segregated cycling' and educate yourself.  research is available that demonstrates that cycling lanes are *more* dangerous than no cycling lanes!

 

There are plenty cyclists here who are happy to point fingers and call other cyclists idiots etc, and who actually don't have a clue about these things!  People are keen to abuse guys like linnega, who does have a clue about integrated cycling, because he is putting forward a different viewpoint, that is contrary to the mob belief!

[Flemish Lion]

"Research is available that demonstrates that cycling lanes are *more* dangerous than no cycling lanes!"

 

 

 

I've experienced this many a times in Belgium.

 

 

 

People's driveways often intersect cycling lanes and cause huge danger (i've got a scar on my knee as proof).

 

 

 

Often these lanes allow for 'cycling' traffic both ways which is extremely dangerous when a group approaches, overtaking slower riders, etc. Small motorcycles often use them too.

 

 

 

A wave and a smile goes a long way...Flemish Lion2009-11-12 05:57:40

[Willehond]

"Research is available that demonstrates that cycling lanes are *more* dangerous than no cycling lanes!"

I've experienced this many a times in Belgium.

People's driveways often intersect cycling lanes and cause huge danger (i've got a scar on my knee as proof).

Often these lanes allow for 'cycling' traffic both ways which is extremely dangerous when a group approaches' date=' overtaking slower riders, etc. Small motorcycles often use them too.

A wave and a smile goes a long way...[/quote']

A bit of a generalised statement in my opinion.  Cycling lanes definitely has its place.  When you mix high speed traffic with slow moving vehicles you risk big damage.  Seperating them on fast sections of roads makes commuting a lot safer.  If I think back about commuting in Cape Town past Woodbridge Island and the number of fatal accidents happening there due to trucks and vehicles hitting people it makes immediate sense. 

I commuted this morning on 21km of cycle lanes in the dark and I promise you I felt 100% safe.  Partly because the cycle lane was about 5 metres away from the road, but also because drivers waited for me at every junction (even on ones they didn't have to!). 

 

Cycling lanes definitely help, but where I agree with Bruce is that they are not the magic answer. It is critical that people change their attitudes.  Cyclists and motorists.

 

Anyway Flemish, the problem in Belgium is not cycling lanes it's the Frenchy drivers!