cradle route

[gummibear]

Guys and girls i really hope that this issue has a happy ending and no-one gets hurt.

Just respect each other and Cradle ressidents just have a little patience for a few seconds when you pass the riders.

 

Why not arrange a braai so that you can all meet in a civilised maner.

[leet22]

So Mr Ples are you a Lemming? I dont think so, so why stoop down to someone else level?

 

The only way that any of this will be sorted is not by meetings as the main culprits will most proberly not even be there but by  Metro/SAPS having week end clamp downs, not just giving fines but talking to both sides and a ongoing presence in the area. If the cycling clubs dont control the members as it is  how will it change? What about the guys that come out of the woodwork for the Argus and 94.7?

 

 

 

 

[Colin H]

A braai of or with?

[Guest Big H]

Rant and Rave' date=' all deception, egos, lies, one-sided stories - But how about the 'Truth'.

I have been requested to lay-off the cyclists, WHY?

The facts:
Mark Thijs posted this topic.
- A one sided story has been posted by him,
- He was part of a rumor campaign about Cradle residents planning a blockade,
- He initiated a lawyer?s letter, and rolled it out to apply to all Cradle residents,
- He names Residents from our area by name and by business and implicates them in this one sided story
- He exaggerates,
- Makes no attempt to resolves issues, only adds fuel to the fire
- Apologises that he won?t make proposed meetings,
- Watches from the side line, will not intervene to keep the process civil, decent and propagate common respect.
- Will not discipline his cronies, when totally out of hand.

Mark, Bruce, Andrew and Gang, are you proud of yourselves when referring to the Cradle residents as:

Wankers
prick
Skietepiete
childish
asshole
primitive
baboons
idiots
vigilantes
stupid
fascists
culprits
killers
murderers
****
fools
cowards
Pluss
Tossers
Obsessive- compulsive, and using phrases like
Slap Ken
Reemed by Bubba
AK47 up your ring
Glock in your face
see you in jail, whilst you threaten to
Boycott businesses.

From the onset, I and other cradle residents requested Decency and Respect. This fell on deaf ears. So we gave you and your cronies just a little bit of the same treatment, now you call for the thread to be ended, request us to give it up, close the topic, deactivate our account etc. WHY? For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. What ever you got from 1 Cradle Resident, me Mr Ples, you obviously can not handle. Any comments posted by me were in response to some pathetic cyclist?s opinion ? DON?T FORGET YOU STARTED ? PERIOD.

The Cradle Residents wish to engage with the responsible Cyclists, who wish to resolve issues in a constructive manner. Our tolerance is running out!

Residents in the Cradle have been assaulted, insulted, generally speaking you crap in our bush, litter the area, pee on the road side, use in appropiate sign language, ride more than 3 abreast, break the rules of the road and admit it. My personal feeling is you and others are suffering from a ?guilt conscience? and posted this topic as a diversion tactic. You have entered the Cradle Area, violated it, then I launch a little missile and I get requested by personal emails and calls to stop the onslaught. ? DON?T FORGET YOU STARTED ? PERIOD.

To Cradle Residents: Postpone this meeting, lets get all the Residents Associations, Conservancy, Estates, Farmers Unions, Business, CPF?s, FPA?s, Disaster Management, Conserv, other interested and affected parties from the COHWHS and surrounds together. We exhibit the facts and the figures as above, previous minute, and elect reps. We then engage with Government and it?s agencies, and when ready we meet with reps from Organised Cycling.

To Responsible Cyclists and Organised Cyclist Groups: Lets see as a staring point, your commitment to the process by disciplining these renegades on this forum.

Mark THIJS, irrespective of the incident, that is between you and the other road user, you choose to bring it to this forum and remember - YOU STARTED ? PERIOD.


Yours Truly
Trevor
[/quote']

 

Talking about wringing things out of context........ Ples you are a master in doing this....... please tell me what is wrong with calling your civil protection group SKIETPIETE and Kommando's.

 

Also please stop calling the roads in the Cradle yours as if you own it...... get it into your thick skull that you DO NOT OWN it and never will. It was paid for with taxpayers money!!!!!!!!!

Big H2010-01-18 08:26:09

[Tumbleweed]

flip HR - thats an awesome floor. When last did you have it sanded ?Do you still have the original door's and door frame's?

 

 

 

 

yup' date=' it is nice! it was sanded before i moved in - which is just over three years ago now. the dogs and kids have taken their toll. am planning to have them redone in july. the doors are original too. the front door should be a half-cottage-pane door, but the previous owner swopped it with the one that leads into rest of the house. the frames were sanded down too.

 

 

 

holy - where are teh playing cards that are meant to be attached to the spokes/fork. your chopper might (but only might) make a little bit of noise..

 

 

 

hahahahaha! but that would ruin the aesthetic and make a certain hubber cross.

[chucky]

Mr Ples,i have on purpose kept away from your childish remarks,and you abviously dont read that well either.

My original post was complaining firstly about a certain Mr X who almost took us out,whilst 3 of us myself ,Andrew,and Bruce were out riding yes 2 a breast and as far left as possible if that is illegal then we should be fined. I see nothing has been mentioned by you and or any other cradle residents about a cradle resident and business owner  condoning that sort off driving.That is the ISSUE here the rest is minor in my books,I refuse to be buzzed by crazy motorists putting my life and that of others at risk. Mr X admitted to me he had buzzed us when i phoned him,and if would have appologized then it would have been all over what is ONE SIDED about that i just dont get you.

We did recieve information about a blockade,you can either believe that or not i really dont care.

Yes a letter was sent out for all to read,and it is quite simple, let a driver knock a cyclists down for trying to dicourage him or her from riding there bikes charges will be laid,it also mentioned that the law can be applied both ways.

Behind the scenes attempts are being made to resolve these issues and you are not invited.

I have not called you any names of any sort and have stuck strictly to the facts as i know them.All the name calling you have done yourself,read my !st post again where i said no name calling no threats to be made,you have enranged the cyclists all by yourself and have bought any name calling apon yourself.

A meeting is and has been arranged more than that i cannot say.

This IS the last you hear from me till AFTER the meeting did you read that properly AFTER the meeting.

 

[Tumbleweed]

From the onset' date=' I and other cradle residents requested Decency and Respect. This fell on deaf ears. So we gave you and your cronies just a little bit of the same treatment, now you call for the thread to be ended, request us to give it up, close the topic, deactivate our account etc. WHY? For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. What ever you got from 1 Cradle Resident, me Mr Ples, you obviously can not handle. Any comments posted by me were in response to some pathetic cyclist?s opinion ? DON?T FORGET YOU STARTED ? PERIOD.[/quote']

 

 

 

mmmmmmm...i only commented on this thread late in the game, and was insulted by creadleresident. totally unprovoked, but i don't really care, but he has gone out of his way to stoke the fire. he doesn't know me, yet assumes that i ride a "boney" and try make the locals "mal". what's with that? you want to engage in a mature manner. saying "YOU STARTED" is kinda schoolyard-ish.

[Andyr249]

Mr. Ples, you talk of a reaction. If I was riding as far left as I and not more than two abreast would I be "buzzed" or subjected to any aggressive, reckless or non-friendly action by any of the cradle residents?

Without going into what really happened, lets take it that Mark and his 2 fellow riders were riding two abreast. Mr. X "buzzed" them for no apparent reason. Would every cyclist be subjected to this same treatment?

[mudda]

To me this is going in circles.

 

The straight forward answer is:

 

1) Roads are public in the cradle.

2) Rules of the road must be obeyed

 

These apply to cyclists,drivers, any road user.

 

There is no higher level of ownership of the roads in the cradle area.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Andyr249]

Lots seem to be said about bringing the law into this. This is South Africa. Metro/SAPS etc have way better things to do than worry about cyclists riding in single file or two or three abreast. Should they rather direct their efforts, given that manpower is a huge problem, to finding the criminals who could very well murder cradleresident or mr ples in their beds tonight?

Someone said something about contacting the local councillor and pushing for bike lanes. You can do that as much as you want but there is no money nor manpower to construct and maintain the cycle lanes. Look at road conditions in the town areas, they are not being maintained. So roads out in the rural areas such as the cradle will be even lower on the priority list! The best solution to to just be more patient and tolerant to other road users. I am sure that motorists will experience more "incidents" such as people cutting infront of you etc than will be caused by a few cyclists. 

[bruce]

Mark' date=' Bruce, Andrew and Gang, are you proud of yourselves when referring to the Cradle residents as:

Wankers
prick
Skietepiete
childish
asshole
primitive
baboons
idiots
vigilantes
stupid
fascists
culprits
killers
murderers
****
fools
cowards
Pluss
Tossers
Obsessive- compulsive, and using phrases like
Slap Ken
Reemed by Bubba
AK47 up your ring
Glock in your face
see you in jail, whilst you threaten to
Boycott businesses.

[/quote']

 

Trevor, are you familiar with the term defamation.  If not, here is a very good explanation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation

 

Now, here's something you need to do.

 

Click on my user name, and you'll get this screen:

 

 

For your convenience, I have circled the button you need to push (in red)

 

After you have done so, you'll get the following screen:

 

 

Once again, press the circled (in red) button.

 

Now, you'll find a full list of my postings on this forum.  Please feel free to use the quote facility (I'll post pictures if you'd like) to reference any posting in which I insult anybody.

 

Andrew has never posted on this topic, and is a prominent businessman in the cycling industry, so your accusation regarding andrew and myself is defamatory and libelous.

 

Do you honestly expect us to take you seriously when you make public postings that are patently wrong?

 

I suggest you make an apology to both Andrew and myself.

 

 

 

 

[Trubie]

the more that is said in this thread , the less is being achieved

everyone is staring to threaten everyone and quite frankly the comments are childish and laughable (or a great deal thereof)

 

whilst trying to solve the issue and getting to a workable solution, it seems the residents (some of them claiming to be cyclists themselves???) are really trying to create their own volkstaat by bordering it and laying claim to ownership of the roads.

 

on the other hand ignorant riders are continuing to add fuel to the fire. If someone with the experience of the riders involved in the initial incident that lead to this thread, is implicated as being in the wrong, then I hate to think what the reaction would be with less experienced riders. A vehicle passing that close to someone less experienced will most certainly lead to a tragedy, which is the last thing anyone wants to see - except maybe the driver implicated?

 

stop the bickering , attend the meeting, be as brave there as on this forum, surely hard words will fall, but hopefully a solution will be found and maybe a peace treaty is a good idea too.

 

if this wasnt such a serious issue - it would have received the Oscar for best movie script even before the year has started properly.

 

By the way Mr Ples - on the matter of the name calling you refer to

go read your post again and be honest with yourself. You doing exactly the same... and as you pointed out for every action there is a natural reaction

 

   

[Bobsleigh]

New poster - hi all.

 

I ride both my road bikes and a mountain bike. I've ridden the Cradle route many times. This last week I was just left dumbfounded. A few groups were just taking over the whole lane, even on blind corners so I just couldn't get past unless I waited (which I started off doing) or drove dangerously - on the right, with only a short view ahead. As an avid cyclist it irritated me - I can only imagine what it must be like for general road users and even more for residents who have that every weekend.

 

Guys 'n gals, if we don't build a culture of respect, we're not going to get this thing sorted. We have a great resource in the Cradle - safe and beautiful. But we're playing a part in messing it up.

 

I think it's the big clubs that need to encourage safer riding because that's usually where the worst behaviour comes from, and where good behaviour can make the biggest difference. If a car comes, just shuffle over a bit. If you can't then the group is too bunched up - string out some.

 

If all else fails, just try driving the route when the cyclists are out I think it'll open your eyes some.

 

 

[Guest Agteros]

The sad fact is that neither Cycling South Africa (CSA), nor Central Gauteng Cycling (CGC), nor Central Gauteng Triathlon (CGT), nor thehubsa.co.za are representative of cyclists, whether sports, recreational or people using it as a transport mechanism.

 

Not even the national olympic committee, NOCSA will be able to solve the problems experienced here, whether those be from the cyclists, or from the motorists point of view.

 

Expecting any of these bodies to solve problems experienced with the greater collective is akin to complaining to the Automobile Association(AA), or Motor Sport South Africa (MSA) about any and all motorists on the road. Good luck with that!

 

The fact is that the AA and MSA are just as non-representative for motorists as any of the cycling/sporting bodies mentioned for cyclists.

 

The solution is really simple, consisting of an awareness drive (sign boards at the roads leading to the cradle area, flyers at the venues used by the cyclists?), and then visible, and legal policing targeting not just one group.

 

 

[mr ples]

Mr Ples' date='i have on purpose kept away from your childish remarks,and you abviously dont read that well either.

 

My original post?was complaining firstly about a?certain Mr X who almost took us out,whilst 3 of us myself ,Andrew,and Bruce were out riding yes 2 a breast and as far left as possible if that is illegal then we should be fined. I see nothing has been mentioned by you and or any other cradle residents?about a cradle resident and business owner? condoning that sort off driving.That is the ISSUE here the rest is minor in my books,I refuse to be buzzed by crazy motorists putting my life and that of others at risk. Mr X admitted to me he had buzzed us when i phoned him,and if would have appologized then it would have been all over?what is ONE SIDED about that i just dont get you.

 

We did recieve information about a blockade,you can either believe that or not i really dont care.

 

Yes a letter was sent out for all to read,and it is quite simple, let a driver knock a cyclists down for trying to dicourage him or her from riding there bikes charges will be laid,it also mentioned that the law can be applied both ways.

 

Behind the scenes attempts are being made to resolve these issues and you are not invited.

 

I have not called you any names of any sort and have stuck strictly to the facts as i know them.All the name calling you have done yourself,read my !st post again where i said no name calling no threats to be made,you have enranged the cyclists all by yourself and have bought any name calling apon yourself.

 

A meeting is and has been arranged more than that i cannot say.

 

This IS the last you hear from me till AFTER the meeting did you read that properly AFTER the meeting.

 

?

[/quote']

 

 

 

Mark you just put your foot in it.

 

- You refer to my remarks as childish, and I don't read properly

 

- You admit now to carrying out an illegal action, riding two abreast, not in a cycle lane

 

- The motorist users the one tool available 'a hooter' to warn you of your dangerous and illegal action, and you now turn this into a show of aggression.

 

- You create an impression that the motorist was driving at high speed, you mention 80km/h, just how you determine this is questionable.

 

- you expect a motorist to apologise because you were in the wrong

 

- Your lawyers letter refers to you and 2 others cyclists being extremely experienced and competent , cycling in a safe manner, yet you now admit it was illegal.

 

- You now distribute a very misleading so called lawyer's letter and post a topic for all to read, naming the motorist and creating totally false impressions. You have lead many people up the garden path. You owe everyone an apology.

 

- You spread rumors of a road blockage, and still refuse to name your source. My advice - check the source sir!

 

 

 

I will call for a postponement of the planned meeting on the 20th Jan, and ask that the Cradle Community be informed of the facts and figures, and convene a series of local meetings to discuss the way forward.

 

 

 

I rest my case.

 

 

 

Regards

 

Trevor

 

 

 

 

 

 

[leet22]

The sad fact is that neither Cycling South Africa (CSA)' date=' nor Central Gauteng Cycling (CGC), nor Central Gauteng Triathlon (CGT), nor thehubsa.co.za are representative of cyclists, whether sports, recreational or people using it as a transport mechanism.

Not even the national olympic committee, NOCSA will be able to solve the problems experienced here, whether those be from the cyclists, or from the motorists point of view.

Expecting any of these bodies to solve problems experienced with the greater collective is akin to complaining to the Automobile Association(AA), or Motor Sport South Africa (MSA) about any and all motorists on the road. Good luck with that!

The fact is that the AA and MSA are just as non-representative for motorists as any of the cycling/sporting bodies mentioned for cyclists.

The solution is really simple, consisting of an awareness drive (sign boards at the roads leading to the cradle area, flyers at the venues used by the cyclists?), and then visible, and legal policing targeting not just one group.

[/quote']

I fully agree Agteros. That is the only way to get the message out.