The mystery of the damaged down tubes

[NotSoBigBen]

Thankfully mine is on a Alu frame  - Will put a small Specialized sticker over it and no one besides the hundreds of hubbers will ever know it was there!

 

Then again a new carbon frame is lurking .......

[Christie]

 

 

Sorry Christie' date=' your view here is not entirely correct .

 

On many frames the areas of high stress is where the lugs join the tubes and in many carbon frames this is the same area where the seat tube water bottle will impact the downtube.

 

There is a lot of stree going through the lower junction of the frame and in particular the bottom area of the downtube and near the head tube junctions.

 

Delamination in this area will result in further delamination and the tube could fail.

 

A patch would certainly help recopver some strength and god knows how thin these carbon things are these days that very little damage becomes a massive problem later on.

 

Another aspect to consider is if the frame does fail, the manufacturer will not honour the warranty due to user abuse.

In any case of carbon damage, its best to get a repair done despite losing the warranty.

[/quote']

Scott frames are not lugged. They use a tube to tube construction method - fit prescision cut tubes together in a jig, wrap the joints with a few layers of carbon & glue. Does not look pretty under a clear coat, so they paint the joints black. The scuff mark in Jules's pic is in an area where the weave is visable, so not at the joint.

 

Most mass produced carbon bike frames have got a cosmetic outer layer of epoxy to cover up surface voids, pin holes etc. This layer contributes nothing to the strength of the frame.

 

Jules's frame got scratched by dirt pinched between a plastic bottle and the frame. I think the outer cosmetic layer got scuffed. There are no broken strands of fiber visable. Rubbing from a water bottle won't cause delamination. You have to hit the frame really hard to delaminate it.

 

Those patches in the other pics Jules posted looks Fugly   

[Jules]

Christie, it's a pity I didn't get a chance to show you my bike in the flesh. If you feel the damage you can see how deep it is.

 

 

 

 

 

As Mud Dee pointed out, a plastic bottle can do a lot of damage when combined with a paste of water and sand. Just look at what relatively soft nylon bushings can do to hard anodised fork stanchions under the same sort of conditions.

 

 

 

 

 

As for the fugliness, i think the position of the damage combined with the fact that it's already clear coat will count in my favour.

[Christie]

J, if it was my bike, I would ride it till it breaks & let the insurance worry about that happened to the frame. If you take it to the insurance as is, they will either have it patched and re-painted, or filled and polished, anyway. I would not even have the abbraded mark filled & polished at first, so I could monitor it & see if there are visable changes. If it did nothing after a month or 2 of hard riding, I would have it filled with epoxy & polished.

 

However, I can't say that there is 0% risk involved. It could break & you could crash  & get hurt badly.

 

If you have it patched, it will be a good excuse to get a re-paint, too. I saw a 2010 Scott paint job that looked quite hot!

 

Something like this:

http://scottusa.com/fr_fr/product/8243/45066/addict_r2

 

 

 

Christie2010-02-02 23:56:43

[Jules]

Sorry, it's taken so long, but here are the pictures of the repair.

 

 

 

I'm not sure it's worth a respray so I'm going to leave it as is for the time being.

 

 

 

The guys there were adamant that the frame had been weakened, and that there was a risk of the damage spreading via a crack.

 

 

 

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs238.snc3/22531_488841650640_868120640_10903549_5878319_n.jpg

 

 

 

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs298.ash1/22531_488841675640_868120640_10903550_266088_n.jpg

 

 

 

The bike was ridden to victory in the sub vets category at the EP Herald, so I don't think the extra weight has a material negative effect

[Mudsimus]

I would leave it as is. If you really want to just spray the part from the top of the patch down to the BB. If that is sprayed black you would never know its been repaired.

[SwissVan]

 

Why didn't they repair the crack from the seat tube rivnut?

 

 

[Jules]

?

 

Why didn't they repair the crack from the seat tube rivnut?

 

?

 

?

 

 

 

That must be a trick question because there isn't one

[SwissVan]

 

Why didn't they repair the crack from the seat tube rivnut?

 

 

That must be a trick question because there isn't one

 

Oops sorri was looking at the cracks in the road

 

Hijack on

Did you see the one afrikaans newspaper billboards a few days ago?

"SA Paie sien hulle Gat"

Bijack

 

 

 

[Johan Bornman]

I had a Cannondale in here yesterday for a wheel issue. I immediately noted his Specialized bottle cages as well as the same carbon damage. The owner didn't even know.

 

I think Specialized screwed up here and should recall the product.

 

The local distributor should take the initiative and take all the unsold cages off the shelves and send it all back to the US.

[Jules]

I had a Cannondale in here yesterday for a wheel issue. I immediately noted his Specialized bottle cages as well as the same carbon damage. The owner didn't even know.

 

?

 

I think Specialized screwed up here and should recall the product.

 

?

 

The local distributor should take the initiative and take all the unsold cages off the shelves and send it all back to the US.

 

 

 

JB, I hope your tongue is in your cheek here. This happens with virtually all bottle cages, not just Spez. Mine were Bontrager, Epoh's were Spez.

 

 

 

How bad was the damage on the 'Dale?

[Andyr249]

Glad you bike got repaired!

[GoLefty!!]

actually most bottle cages are designed properly with a proper cradle at the bottom.

 

elite and TA Specialities makes the best carbon cages

 

[Johan Bornman]

I had a Cannondale in here yesterday for a wheel issue. I immediately noted his Specialized bottle cages as well as the same carbon damage. The owner didn't even know.

 

I think Specialized screwed up here and should recall the product.

 

The local distributor should take the initiative and take all the unsold cages off the shelves and send it all back to the US.

JB' date=' I hope your tongue is in your cheek here. This happens with virtually all bottle cages, not just Spez. Mine were Bontrager, Epoh's were Spez.

How bad was the damage on the 'Dale? [/quote']

 

No, I'm serious. This smacks of bad design and testing. Bontrager should then also recall theirs. The one I saw was Spez, hence my comment.

 

The 'Dale's downtube was abraded half-way through on two spots 5mm apart. I'd say the hole was 6mm in diameter tapering smaller the deeper it got. Definitely into the carbon weave.

 

I don't blame the local importer, but he/she should take note and cease to sell the rubbish.

 

 

[Jules]

I had a Cannondale in here yesterday for a wheel issue. I immediately noted his Specialized bottle cages as well as the same carbon damage. The owner didn't even know.

 

?

 

I think Specialized screwed up here and should recall the product.

 

?

 

The local distributor should take the initiative and take all the unsold cages off the shelves and send it all back to the US.

JB' date=' I hope your tongue is in your cheek here. This happens with virtually all bottle cages, not just Spez. Mine were Bontrager, Epoh's were Spez. How bad was the damage on the 'Dale? [/quote']

 

?

 

No, I'm serious. This smacks of bad design and testing. Bontrager should then also recall theirs. The one I saw was Spez, hence my comment.

 

?

 

The 'Dale's downtube was abraded half-way through on two spots 5mm apart. I'd say the hole was 6mm in diameter tapering smaller the deeper it got. Definitely into the carbon weave.

 

?

 

I don't blame the local importer, but he/she should take note and cease to sell the rubbish.

 

?

 

?

 

 

 

Very interesting. It's not very important for guys with metal bikes, but for us poncey carbon fibre riders, this sort of damage is very annoying.

 

 

 

The guy must have been distressed when you pointed the damage to him. Is he going to get it repaired, like I did? Did you offer him advice?

[Johan Bornman]

 

Very interesting. It's not very important for guys with metal bikes' date=' but for us poncey carbon fibre riders, this sort of damage is very annoying.

The guy must have been distressed when you pointed the damage to him. Is he going to get it repaired, like I did? Did you offer him advice? [/quote']

 

I think that will go right through a thin-walled alu bike as well. On my alu waterbottle cages the bottle has already abraded half-way through the cage itself, and that is 6mm thick!

 

It is quite weird, but a soft water bottle with grit, will abrade a harder surface with no damage to the water bottle. I see this in Rox poplocks uite often, where an aluminium shaft moves in a nylong bush. The nylon remains perfect and the aluminium suffers.

 

Did I offer him advice? Yes.* Same as what Mampara would have said - get a metal bike and stop being such a poofter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* Disclaimer: I also said he should keep an eye on the hole for cracks. This he should do with each bike wash.