LBS Salesmen..... bullsh!tters??????

[AttieSlabbert]

Taiwan about 3 bowls/ rice a day! !!!

[AttieSlabbert]

I'm still not sure which part of a cannondale is actually MADE in America. I think it might be the spokes, but I'm not sure.

[pastapouch]

Taiwan about 3 bowls/ rice a day! !!!

 

still a bargain.

 

Actually, what you do is , buy from an European agent. they buy in BIIIGGGG quantities from China/Taiwan, so the price is then even lower!

[widget]

I think its symtomatic of all small and / or young industries Hendrik, bigger or more mature industries are able to better invest in training and staff education and are able to stock bigger ranges of products.

 

I also think the public need to educate themselves a bit on their intended purchases before going shopping and have a basic idea of what you are looking for, just relying on a salesman as your sole form of decision will usually result in a poor purchase decision, as (and quite understandably) they will usually have their own agenda.

 

I chuckle about it now, but some years ago I had a professional fitting done at a very well known shop, they told me my saddle was inappropriate and I should buy this one - I said okay and it was fitted.

A year or so later I had another fitting done at the same shop, just a differant person, and guess what, he told me my saddle was inappropriate and I should buy another one he reccommended - but this time I didnt bite, - I dont mind, I understand he probably has targets and he also needs to live, but a case of "let the buyer beware" I guess. 

 

 

[pastapouch]

I'm still not sure which part of a cannondale is actually MADE in America. I think it might be the spokes' date=' but I'm not sure.[/quote']

 

you forgot the "HAND"

[AttieSlabbert]

OOOPPPSSS - yes sorry HANDMADE in America!!!

[AttieSlabbert]

If I look on the ads on this page - Edge, Fulcrum, ProLite, Look, Cervelo,Ritchey, Sella Italia, etc. you name it, are made here. But you will not see it on the bikes. Yes it is designed where ever, but then the guys come here for the manufacturing of parts.

[Johan Bornman]

Ou toppie with a boep, rubgy shorts, hairy legs and rocky sandals walks into a bike shop and farts around, kicking tyres and squeezing brakes.

Sales laaitie with shaved legs and slip-on takkies walks up to him and says: "Can I help you oom?"

Ja boet, waar is hierdie fiets gemaak?

 

Laaitie checks him out, takes a deep breath and starts at the front. The tyres are Vredenstein and is make in Holland. The tube is a Continental and made in Germany. The rim is Mavic and made in France. The spokes are SAPIM and made in Belgium, the hub is Shimano. It's bearings are SKF and made in Sweden, the hub is forged in a plant in Malaysia and the whole lot is assembled in Japan. The fork is Reynolds and made in the UK, the headset is made under license from the American company A-Headset by a Taiwanese outfit. The stem is a 3TTT and is from Italy, the bar tape is American, the brake levers is from Shimano and probably assembled in Japan, the frame is welded in Taiwan, heat treated in Malaysia and painted in the USA. The saddle is Italian, the pedals Look, from France, the chain is KMC, a reputable Chinese company. The brake cables are supposedly Shimano but actually OEM'd from a German manufacturer."

 

Outoppie, now with big eyes just starts to mouth the word "jussis", when the laaite continues." And what accessories would you like with that sir? I can give you a speedo from Japan or a HRM from Finland, some tyre sealant from South Africa and a pump from Taiwan.

 

Outoppie now realises he asked a smart-ass question and starts to fiddle with his cellphone, wondering if he can't make the thing ring, get it to beep an appointment or something. Luckily his wife walks in and shrills: "Pappa, jy weet jy mag nie in bikeshops ingaan nie. Kom dadelik hier!"

 

"Ja skat.".....

 

I spend quite a bit of time in bike shops and often have to answer questions on wheels and other technical issues. I seldom know how in-depth I must go. I can give the rocket science answer or just an abbreviated answer like "it's from America".

 

You have to ask yourself, in addition to what laaitie knows, how much time he/she has on hand and how much time they must reasonably invest in you.  Sometimes I clearly bore people when all I want to do is give a thorough answer.

 

JB  

 

 

Johan Bornman2007-08-22 03:06:57

[Canaris]

lets get real. THE entire process of butting a bike together is a global effort. Designers in Europe, Canada, USA, even Australia pen something together, with the help of a world wide array of pro cyclists giving their inputs. (Australian, US, RSA ext). Then material is sourced from every where (Easton tubing-USA), (Colombus tubing- Italy) (Deda-Italy). THen the best and sometimes cheapest manufacturing plant is chosen. Trek and Cannondale -USA. Eddy Merckx -Belgium/USA/Italy. Kona-Italy,Canada, Taiwan. THE frames are then made, and dressed with groups Campy-italy, shimano-Japan, wheels the same thing.

 

After all that you have a truly global product. A good LBS assistant should know the brands he sells and share that upfront.

 

Local myth is that everything comes out of BIKE HEAVEN, a factory in Taiwan. This is not true there are two factories making bikes in Taiwan (only joking)

[MooToo]

[RodTi]

 

Good point Mr Bornman!

 

If that sales-laaitie was to answer my question like you suggested, I'd probably start laughing, and say well done!

 

But then I could think of a couple of mates who might just want to smack him for getting cheeky, never mind the fact that the original question might be intended to test the salesman in the first place...

 

But in Oom's defence [not that he needs any ], his line of question did start rather innocently from a query regarding stock...

 

And I think somewhere in his post, he aimed a shot at lbs owners who might not stock certain brand-names because of whatever agendas they might have with the parent company etc...

But I guess at the end of the day, it's the right of the owner to decide what he wants to sell ?

If you don't find what you need in his shop - then you won't buy anything?.... 

 

That being said - whilst service in SA is a problem, hubbers have made the valid point that the salesperson is often only as good as the info/training he gets from the top...

 

Reminds me of an argument I had in a music store years back.

Walked in, saw a Fender Strat on sale.

This just after it was widely publicised in "Guitar"(?) that a Japanese consortium had recently purchased the rights to producing the Fender range over in the East.

 

Nothing wrong with the new guitars, but suddenly the 'older' stock, that was still made in the US of A, became all the more valuable.

 

So, had a look at the guitar in the window, and it looked very new.

And I suspected it was the new range, not the old.

So I politely enquired whether this guitar was made in Japan.

[Guess I could have phrased the question a bit better ]

Well... I nearly had my head taken off.

Involved the owner of the shop, jumping off his chair, and storming in my general direction, blabbering incoherently about the tradition of Fender...

It only became worse when he saw I wasn't really buying his story...

I started giggling whilst backing out of his store....

 

Point I'm trying to make - is often owners are sometimes defensive about the origins of their products, since they might (rightfully?) be of the opinion that the general public would more than likely want to purchase something made in USA, rather than something with a "made in Taiwan" sticker on...

 

The fact that those in the 'know' know that virtually everything is made in Taiwan, doesn't change this - since those in the know are in the minority, I guess.

 

And a Oom with a boep, jean short-pants and rocky's would probably [sorry Oom] like to think his is made in the USA.

Even if it is not.

 

Guess you then enter the ethical realm of questioning whether the LBS should convince the member of the general public that even if it is 'made in Taiwan', its ok - since most are made there... or take the shortcut buy simply telling him its made there, keep him happy, and make the sale??

 

[Johan Bornman]

 

Good point Mr Bornman!

 

If that sales-laaitie was to answer my question like you suggested' date=' I'd probably start laughing, and say well done!

 

But then I could think of a couple of mates who might just want to smack him for getting cheeky, never mind the fact that the original question might be intended to test the salesman in the first place...

 

snip...snip....snip..... 

 

Guess you then enter the ethical realm of questioning whether the LBS should convince the member of the general public that even if it is 'made in Taiwan', its ok - since most are made there... or take the shortcut buy simply telling him its made there, keep him happy, and make the sale??

 

[/quote']

 

I dare you to walk into a Harley shop and ask if it is made in Japan.

 

Funny as all this is, it is also sad. It means that people don't know how to judge the quality of an item. They assume country of origin = quality. They have no idea what makes a hub or a spoke good or bad. Design is a label, not a function of engineering.

 

You just have to look at the quality of products from the East and realise that there is something wrong with our way of judging things by their country of origin. 

 

Something else they balk at is mass-produced stuff. They'll rather have a hand-brazed Italian frame than one made by robots in Taiwan. They prefer to overlook old Guiseppe getting vrot at lunchtime and heating the frame a bit too much and causing it to fail three years down the line. Robots (whether they're sweatshop workers or machines) don't do that.

 

I think there is something inherently prejudicial in our method of judgement. Think about:

 

Italian bikes

Swiss watches

German cars

French wine

Bengian chocolate

Italian coffee (Italy doesn't grow coffee)

 

I try hard to fight my prejudices but every now and then they overcome me.

 

I just wish some of the Taiwanese tool companies will produce a range like Park's.

 

[bobbie]

Hendrik is dit nie die geval van "monkey see monkey do" nie.

 

As jy by party winkels inloop word jy eers "gescrutineer" en dan besluit hulle of hulle jou miskien wil help en dan is dit 'n moerse miskien.

 

 

 

and if you're female its even worse' date='  then you are in for the "what does she know" treatment....

[/quote']

 

Yeah, but what DOES she know?

 

 

 

 

 

Since my last moan about my LBS I received some good advice from Nellie - (thanks you rock!) - and I can proudly say that I know a lot more than I did before.. but even armed with knowledge its the same reception... Matters not though, its just an observation I made..Thyolo...Speedy!

 

 

 

 

[Thyolo]

I thought as long as it had a bell and a basket you'd be happy

 

 

[bobbie]

I thought as long as it had a bell and a basket you'd be happy

 

 

 

 

I see someone had bird seed for breakfast.....

[dirtrider]

Johan dis presies hoe ek voel , net omdat 'n Tata iewers in India aanmekaar gespyker word beteken nie dis 'n gagga kar nie !?