MTB'ers vs landowners / malicious damage to property etc.

[Cassie]

Spilling over from another conversation here on the Hub about new Trails etc. etc.

 

The issue of landowners and damage to property has me intrigued...

 

Is this really an issue? Do some of you have first hand experience? or have seen any damage done by MTB'ers?

 

I'm going to stick my head out and say that this is not really a big issue...

AFAIK MTB'ers passing through or over someone's property / land...rarely stop to take notice of what damage they can casue! They merely want to pass through and get to their end destination - usually on a training ride , as fast as they can!! There is no time to cause k@k etc. etc.

 

Or is this only myself and riding buddies - and the rest of the crowds are totally different?

This is especially true for guys out training for Epic and other events that want 60 -80km routes,...they have no time to cause any k@k??

 

Would like to hear some thoughts / opinions on thssi matter...

[splat]

There have been issues where gates are left open and livestock escapes?

Perhaps there is the odd Gu/energy bar wrapper left blowing in the wind?

There is of course straight forward tresspassing.

 

Not sure what else, but interesting question.

[brussel]

Cassie

 

I think you are right, but all it takes is one tosser to ruin it. Years ago I got stopped by a local farmer who was well angry having me on his land. After much talking I got him to calm down and he said some guys had actually cut a fence with wire cutters. Now whether it was mtb riders or not I dont know...but there are idiots out there and whilst you and I might be out for a training ride and not damage anything - one idiot can ruin a whole area.

[Mojoman]

I ride all over in my area, if I see a gate open, it stays open, if its shut, I make sure I shut it. Leave no wrappers or rubbish laying around and don't skid up all the roads/paths and this does cause some damage on hillsides. I also know a lot of people here so if I see a sick beast or come across some stolen property (this has happened twice now!) I can do my bit for my community. But people move out to the country for some peace and quiet and may not want to see groups of riders crossing their land.

[Ratty]

how would you feel if people just decided it was alright to walk through your property. Its NOT ok to ride on someones land unless you have permission whether you do damage or not. There are plenty of legal trails out there to ride. We have lost a potential trail in the Durbanville area thanks to people riding where they weren't allowed.

 

I also get really angry with all the people who go ride on the legal trails, but don't pay the permit like they are supposed to. We have already had one or two trails closed (eg Thandi) due to this. FFS people, its only R25/R30. U probably spend way more money on the petrol to drive there and lunch afterwards, and/or energy drink and gu's for the ride.

[TNOSE_E]

Wrong thread...

Edited November 15, 2010 by TNOSE_E

[PhilipV]

Trespassing is an issue on its own. And you get the inconsiderate ones who litter, but most damage is to fences and gates where the riders climb over.

 

I for one don't want someone on my property without knowing who it is and what the are doing.

Farmers have lots of hassles with poaching, livestock theft, diesel theft and farm attacks are forefront in all their minds.

 

I for one don't ride across farms that havent given permission to mtb'ers, I think it's a bit selfish and dispespectfull.

And it is hard enough for the guys that lobby the farmers for trails (AMA, Basin Cycles, Tygerberg mtb club) without tresspassers on the farmers properties.

[Regard]

Whether there is damage to property or not, doesn't matter......

 

It is common decency to respect some one's privacy. There is no difference between your small garden in the urban area and his land out there!

 

You won't like the pedestrians/builders/beggars walking through your garden all day, although they might not cause any damage, just because it is on thier way to the liqour store.

 

Same should count for MTB'ers. If you have a "understanding" with the land owner--- so be it......If not stay of his/her property.

[Danger Dassie]

Ratty put it 100% .... Look at van Gaalen, those trails cross through 40 odd farms, takes a lot of work to get that.

Things like that we shouldn't take for granted, wether or not there is a trail fee.

[slowpoke]

and if any of you read the thread about the one ways at northern farms you'd realise that here in gtn it's just as bad - you get permission to ride somewhere, due to various issues (safety of oncomming riders, view of exit of single trail from farm road/erosion/whatever, it is requested that people abide by signiage and respect to not ride certain paths and to ride in a given direction only, and then you get the hubbers who say "it's just a farm, i'll ride where i want to"

[Caerus]

how would you feel if people just decided it was alright to walk through your property. Its NOT ok to ride on someones land unless you have permission whether you do damage or not. There are plenty of legal trails out there to ride. We have lost a potential trail in the Durbanville area thanks to people riding where they weren't allowed.

 

I also get really angry with all the people who go ride on the legal trails, but don't pay the permit like they are supposed to. We have already had one or two trails closed (eg Thandi) due to this. FFS people, its only R25/R30. U probably spend way more money on the petrol to drive there and lunch afterwards, and/or energy drink and gu's for the ride.

 

I discussed this exact subject this weekend while out riding with a game lodge owner up in Hluwuwe, they also dont want you on their land because of liabilty should anything happen to you, be it getting hit by a tractor, eaten by a mad cow etc etc, there is a pineapple farmer there in particular that turns up his paths & roads to make it more difficult for MTBers to ride through.

[Cassie]

Raait, this is getting interesting!

 

Firstly, the privacy issue...I would also NOT like anyone on my property...so privacy /trespassing aside.. (we can deal with that seperately).

 

From what i've gathered so far:

(1) Leaving gates open = risk to livestock etc.

(2) Littering...definate no no

(3)Cutting of fences...not MTB'ers...they are far to weight weeny to carry extra weight in form of wirecutters!!

(4) climbing over fences, yes that will be an issue...but if there are existing routes...then no need for climbing anywhere!

 

Tresspassing per se is the big issue it seems...it's just not on and I also do not subscribe to it...

 

But I would really like to have nice looong route to cycle in bliss...without having a farmer chasing me down with his shotgun!!

 

The +tive side coulde be

(1) Extra vigilance by having more eyes to patrol an area...one could for example have the property owner's cell# on hand and inform him of suspicious looking individuals on his property...I'd appreciate that if it was my property.

 

What i'm trying to establish here is whether there are some issues that can be addressed to make landowner more readily accessible to MTB'ers where both the landowner and biker can be satisfied.

 

 

I respect their right to privacy, but damn...some areas are just sooo beautiful that it is an absolute shame not to share those views/ areas with others!!

[Caerus]

Raait, this is getting interesting!

 

Firstly, the privacy issue...I would also NOT like anyone on my property...so privacy /trespassing aside.. (we can deal with that seperately).

 

From what i've gathered so far:

(1) Leaving gates open = risk to livestock etc.

(2) Littering...definate no no

(3)Cutting of fences...not MTB'ers...they are far to weight weeny to carry extra weight in form of wirecutters!!

(4) climbing over fences, yes that will be an issue...but if there are existing routes...then no need for climbing anywhere!

 

Tresspassing per se is the big issue it seems...it's just not on and I also do not subscribe to it...

 

But I would really like to have nice looong route to cycle in bliss...without having a farmer chasing me down with his shotgun!!

 

The +tive side coulde be

(1) Extra vigilance by having more eyes to patrol an area...one could for example have the property owner's cell# on hand and inform him of suspicious looking individuals on his property...I'd appreciate that if it was my property.

 

What i'm trying to establish here is whether there are some issues that can be addressed to make landowner more readily accessible to MTB'ers where both the landowner and biker can be satisfied.

 

 

I respect their right to privacy, but damn...some areas are just sooo beautiful that it is an absolute shame not to share those views/ areas with others!!

 

See my post

[Andyr249]

Interesting, the roadies p!ss off the Cradle residents and the MTB'ers p!ss off the farmers!

 

It is all about respect. MTB'ers have to respect the farmers' land and only ride there if given the necessary permission. You wouldn't want someone riding his bike over your lawn and in your flower beds without your permission. And then leaving your gate open for your dogs to run into the road.

[Cassie]

yes, liability is a big issue...luckily we in SA aren't the litigating mad type you get in AUS for example...

[Mojoman]

I think that if you have areas that you think may be suitable to cross through, have a chat with the landowner, he can only say yay or nay! But if you don't ask, you will never know!