Let me explain why I will take a bit of a sabbatical for a while and maybe this can be of some contribution to the debate. As a relative newbie, I found the hub informative and most helpfull. I enjoyed both the sarcastic remarks and humorous etc and even contributed to "mocking" the odd stupid question as well, which was deserved.(Remember "Propman's" question on how does one get noticed as a professional Prop (meaning Pro)) But... I found that a few things "bugged" me no end (and I am NOT sensitive)of which I have listed some: 1) when a thread gets hijacked and goes off on a cycling tangent it is ok, but when two individuals hijack a serious thread and "bite" each other for three pages while others are waiting for information or answers, it is ridiculous: 2) The whole TCS debacle p'ed me off no end. Here are a small sponsored team (in my opinion) who are extremeley passionate about their team and even make of cycle that most ride, who are starting to make an impact and yet, the "HUB", the cycling community who should be celebrating the David and Goliath story (Ok, even if Goliath was on vacation and his smaller brother was fighting in his place..!) we start ripping them off and insulting them as they share their cycling pics and experiences with us etc, etc. VERY bad taste. 3) there are some who clearly do not understand the difference between sarcasm, humour, harmless banter & mocking (all great) and downright crude & insulting behaviour. There has been too much of the latter in my opinion. The fact that the hub is so serious now just shows that maybe too many don't know how to operate in the former. And no, I am not a "holier than thou" or being judgemental at all. As I said in my post, the majority of people on the hub are gr8!!! Which leads me to the last point.. 5) Related to 1) - I thought that the Hub was a forum and NOT a chat room. Maybe people should think about the difference before discussing the matter further. I am not against either, but then decide which it is. I think we lose many people who think that it is an actual forum (sure with some chit chat occassionaly) when it seems to be operated for the most part like a glorified chat room by it's members. And so we have members getting offended and keep asking the ridiculous question about freedom of speech etc (vomit, vomit ) because they actually want a chat room where you can curse and insult all and sundry (including their friends and familly) and cannot operate with humour in a forum environment. I think we are going through an identity crises that will eventually determine and define what the hub is actually all about. A community of similar interest groups or "clicks" (and no I am not talking about TCS as I celebrate their comeraderie and team spirit!) who would be better off e-mailing each other or chatting on the telephone. I belong to audioassylum.com forum and you won't believe the entry criteria etc with probably twenty times the amount of members that the hub has. There is the odd banter etc but nothing as insulting or crude as I have witnessed here. I also don't want to offend anyone with my view but if the shoe fits... Notice how few of the people who genuinely are knowledgeable are posting regularly at the moment. Anyway just my 2c - no offence intended and I will not get offended if anyone says that maybe I don't belong to here (I am already starting to wonder about it as well though)racman2007-06-21 09:21:34