Joe Low

Nicely put, not least because i agree with you. The other concept is "too big to fail" - many people from UCI to sponsors were invested in LA's story and persona & couldnt afford for this to happen. Thats why its taken such a long time to come out, imo. Similarities also to Jimmy Savile in the UK who was a "national treasure" and now uncovered as a rampant paedophile for the last 50-odd years before his death.

It's possibly (probably) not the real Vinakourov

Course not Scotty - the quality of an opinion is down to how much thought, research and discussion has gone into arriving at it. Not "i've always liked the fella therefore i reckon he didnt do it" or similar. Express all opinions but if someone holds out that the moon is made of cheese then they need to be prepared to back it up or take some flak. And its probably best to hold most opinions lightly - we're a long way from the action on most things we talk about esp on the Hub. On this one, I currently think he and the UCI are bang to rights, but there's a lot more to play out.

Opinions are not equal and yours, as expressed, is one of the lesser ones. Mellow the **** out is also not very mellow.

I think the perjury was to get USD5m bonus for winning a tour where the insurance co. was worried that he had doped. He swore under oath that he didnt. Defrauding folk of USD5m is good enough for jail time imo. The similarities with Julius Malema grow - a people's hero with feet of clay.

The advantage of LA living in a fictional world is that he can join Team Seven Dwarves - they already got Doc & Dopey.

Myprodols huh? Do they work, do they huh huh where can i get some , what do they do? gimme gimme.

Hansie Cronje Lance Armstrong Ben Johnson Ray MacCauley Bill Clinton King David Sai Baba Talented people who inspire, do good and cheat. Its not black and white out there. Its how we deal with our "fallen idols" or those of others that needs looking at. Why do you want to deny the evil or why do you want to point the evil out. It says more about us & our needs, than them. (ok Ben Johnson maybe didnt do that much good but in Seoul, it was the most amazing 100mtrs of all time , beating goodie-goodie anti-doping Lewis, only to be brought down the next day by his +ve test)

There's a lot more to being guilty than publicly being announced as testing positive. But maybe you are yanking our chains.

Lance gave up his case before going to arbitration so that the mass of evidence against him would not come out. In doing this and accepting the ban it is clear that he is guilty. As was everybody else who won anything during that period. I've got nothing against him, (& i thought he was great in Dodgeball) just the poor reasoning of some of his defenders. Who could you give those titles to who wasnt a doper?

the UCI "concealed cases of doping, received money for doing so, have accepted money from Lance Armstrong to conceal a doping case, have protected certain racing cyclists, concealed cases of doping, have engaged in manipulation, particularly of tests and races," and more. the UCI is "full of ****", "clowns" and "liars", There, fixed. Thats the cenral message to this story.

"Gell" where I come from is a posh way of saying "Girl". Kinda changes the range of answers a bit.

Hope he's reincarnated as a donkey. But more concerned about getting caught in a jam on the ORT service road parallel to the R21 this a.m. with the closure of the highway due to rock throwing and burning of vehicles. Eissh its a jungle out there.

Do unto others before, they do unto you.

50:50 I take the Clint Eastwood (Dirty Harry / Spaghetti Western) approach where he has his own morality that sometimes coincides with the general view, and sometimes not. I could run a red light today and blow you away tomorrow for doing the same thing. So, punk, are you feeling lucky?

Like he said. I did TB and thought I'd cruise a road tour I just came back from. Looks like i "trained myself slow" as another Hubber put it as I suffered for a lot of the 500+kms.

I fetched up there Saturday a.m. before the Argus a couple of years back when SAA or whoever broke my rear der on the plane down from Jhb. They were great to fix it there and then in a busy shop and the price was fine. On the downside, I left them to raise and tighten the seatpost. Sometime after Smitswinkel I started to get a sinking feeling and by Misty Cliffs my knees were round my ears and I had to stop & fix the thing, losing my group and chance of a good time.

I think all the regular training programmes have a period of building a base level of endurance before putting speed on top through interval training. Of course, speed can be taught / developed but limited to the individual's genes / aptitude.

Jesus' mum for example (just saying)

Well just give him the petrol and save the matches for another time. Sounds like a "no-fault-****-happens" kinda situation, nice that you feel responsible but dont overdo it.

Great discussion especially with Li M wotsit putting the alternative view; its brought out a load of issues. For me, it makes me certain i never want to do a 40km mtb event. Sounds like too much waiting and too much angst from riders who think theyre right when theyre not. I like how the question comes back to those complaining about talentless riders - what are you doing behind them? Its not as though they were abducted by aliens before being dumped at the back of the field through a hole in the time-space continuum. You're with those folk because you are those folk, now make friends and play nice.

Hi Ian - you havent posted much recently, but were prolific 4 or 5 yrs ago? I wear a helmet unless i'm going down the park on a Sunday pm. Its the idea of self-policing i object to much, much more than any law. It just encourages little Hitlers who have no care or concern for the individual, just that rules are being followed. No one pushing the rules has had any kind word for the gent concerned, they just want to bash him or have him bashed by a car; and impose themselves as being "right".

The law does not have any meaning as it stands. Having a bell is also a requirement - kinda funny in the murder, rape, corruption capital of the world that someone would think to try and make us all have bells on our bicycles. Maybe there was a tender?

You are mistaken and I'm not arguing that the law is on the books. I'm saying that the law is not enforced / enforceable and there are no penalties set. This is because it is iniquitous to burden the majority of cyclists with the cost of a helmet.

No, it isnt. The law was written then they realised it was prejudicial to the majority of the population so it has never been enforced and no penalties have ever been set for it. People just like to tell other people what to do and this is just another excuse.