Chris_

I thought the conversation was aimed at the three or four thousand rand events. (Because those tables are like small woolies') If you go kick around at smaller events at big red barn, or irene or hennops or where ever, those runs aren't any more costly than a road race so water only is acceptably little I think.

In SA, could it be the right?

Enjoy it. Sit back and be happy you've earned a good rest day. Otherwise maybe some type of cross training? A swim is as good as anything to flush out the body with zero impact. Gym or something for your upper body?

What's the opposite of the passenger side?

I like the way Run Zone is set up. The yearly fee is a couple hundred bucks so lets call it negligible, it does get you the ASA license and a shirt anyway. But what I like is when you decide to run with them, you give a 20 buck donation, and then you get a table of water/drinks/sweets etc every 5kms. and the routes go up to 25/30 kms. Sometimes its nice not having to carry my own or plan a longer route. I do go very infrequently, but its a nice to have. Plus Graham is a legit OG - he ran 100 milers incl western states before they were even a real thing.

So I learned something new - South Africa has no legislation around labelling poultry as free range or organic. Each retailer sets their own rules. Granted a lot of them seem to be fairly similar - 15 per sqm, no disease, x hours of real or artificial light, x cms of space to feed from, x hundred per nest. But it really is a free for all. There are a lot of private associations that will officially mark your products but its really one word against the other. Also read an article that (I think recently) said 5% of chickens in SA are 'free range'. Only. I wonder if its the same for all other animal farming? probably is.

Indeed. What percent of beef, pork, chicken, milk, eggs, etc comes from mass produced farms, and what comes from free range /specialty fed and how they're treated and produced. Again though, as previously discussed we're looking at animals as very different beings when switching the focus to highlight the need to look at these types of things. One is justifying a view about fairly (?) using them as a commodity, the other is that they're a commodity at all. Conversely, also read about greenwashing. It's a advertising tactic to make people believe things are environmentally friendly. It's been a real hit lately.

You need to discern for the sake of these debates the difference between vegetarian and vegan. I'm not actually sure what a plant based diet is, I always thought it was an umbrella term for many types of newer diets. I'm speaking out of turn here but the animals do suffer. Dairy cows have to be artificially inseminated every year for their calf to be taken away to be killed and them continue to produce milk. They live attached to machines sucking them dry - that's not how cows are meant to live. Hens are specially bred to live life in cages and churn out eggs. Their lives are purpose grown for our enjoyment, only.

Not accusing, just adding against the above view: I couple years ago we were in Mexico City and it was quite literally like having an asthma attack 24/7. The air is getting unbreathable in some of our big cities. We are emptying, polluting and poisoning our oceans. We are digging up, poisoning and 'degrading' our soil and earth. We are eradicating an astonishing amount of fauna and flora from existence. The only thing 'gaining' is humans. There is no balance. This plan that the world is for us is evidently not working.

Thats a good point. Things could get quickly tough(er) over there.

For me it was a diet experiment, I've tried out most diets just out of interest. For my wife it was to lower cholesterol. We've both decided to stick with it. Plants I think have a mechanism built in. I know some plants have evolved to become incredibly adept at doing x and y but.. I don't think its a conscience move on their behalf. Self-preservation seems to be just ingrown and not an emotional decision. Its the same as releasing spores or seeds maybe, its a transformative process that happens at an exact time, but not an actively conscious decision. Maybe that was the wrong choice of word on my behalf. (?) Difficult to explain Ja third paragraph we come unstuck. I hear and I understand and may even agree with a lot of your view, but ultimately I feel it can become a war of words and select definitions to justify your stance. I like killing this way but not killing that way - sometimes with these kind of arguments I struggle to find the difference.

Lets start here. A lot of this is quite general, so don't think I'm boxing you in. (This turned into a bit of a blurb, so apols) I said before its about my relationship with the world. I'm here, and I don't believe the world and everything on it is solely for me to consume and use. (yes, thats heavy) The longer I go without eating meat - which was unheard of for most of my life, the more it seems I can do so without any negative result. I mean I've done Ironmans, run 100 miles, my brain hasn't ceased to function, my body hasn't collapsed, so physically - there really is no need. Obviously mental is the bigger part. Also the longer I don't eat meat the more I think about why I chose to do so more generally. So now I'm thinking about do I really need leather whatevers, do I really need cows milk, and so on. The more I learn about whats going on, the more I think well I could probably do without 'this' consumption. We love going to game reserves to see animals and birds, we've developed a far greater appreciation for seeing them in the 'wild'. Next thing we're learning about trees, grasses, bugs, reptiles - it really does seem the more I learn about whom or what ever, the less reason I see for wanton destruction (despite sounding so obvious when written down like that). Diving, I love diving, its a totally different world, it took one second to build an appreciation to not want to see these creatures and environments wiped out. Would I kill a bug, no I'd pick it up and chuck it somewhere else, would I kill a snake, no same thing, well someone else can pick it up. Ants? Flies? Mozzies? Of course, but I'm not seeking them out to kill. The thing is I really see no reason to have to kill anything. They;re not here for us to do as we please. You said trees and pain. Off topic: A while ago, we pulled off the road while on a game drive and he told us to chew on a leaf from one bush. We did. He then shook the tree quite aggressively. A second later we chowed a leave from a similar bush a few meters away and the thing was suddenly sour! So yes they do talk to each other, its unbelievable! But, if I'm going to choose between eating plants and animals, plants are not sentient beings, so thats it. simple. But again a good example of me learning the incredible'ness of nature and not trying to directly or indirectly overdo my quota. buying that iphone - do you need a phone - yes, do you need a phone every year, and a new tablet, and new tv, and a new car, and a new blah blah - thats the difference to me. One you can justify as necessity, the other is wasteful, and increasingly harmful to the planet. Lastly, hunting vs buying from the shop. Mass produced animal is a travesty the more I learn about conditions. Their lives are miserable and their death is miserable. Hunting them yes their lives are potentially better but death is death at the end of the day. Theres no such thing as ethical killing as far as I'm concerned. They don't want to die, so it really is just you justifying it however you choose. But would I support you in shooting your own buck and using the entire thing vs buying packaged bits and pieces from woolies where only 50% (don't quote me on that) is used and the rest goes to waste - yes. (there is a third option though)

I agree the topics are very much interlinked. Remember veganism is not just a diet plan. Its equally about your relationship with animals / the earth / its resources. As I said before I'm sure none of us will change each others' minds about this, but theres no reason to stop a fairly pertinent to the topic (civil) debate. I do though remember the round and round debates on the hunting thread when it started. In fact it may be interesting to read my own comments on it again given its been how-many-more years of me not eating animals since then so could be interesting.

I know there will never be agreement here, so maybe the less said the better... I think there is a difference between people nominating themselves as an animal lover (this is where it started) as in a living being, and a lover of an animal as a commodity. I'm getting the overwhelming feeling you are describing being a lover of animals as commodities. As long as you feel you worked hard enough to either deserve killing it, manipulate it, benefit from it, monetise it, then taking a life is way down the totem pole. Ethics have very different meanings between each person and in each circumstance its referred to in, but this post above makes it sound like 'fairness in a game' is your ethical priority in hunting, while others could argue animals and lives are not for games.

Why do G wagons always lean a bit to one side?

I'm not sure this reply was as clever as you thought it was. I'm kind of lost for your point, or angle, or argument. Edit: apols if that came out condescending, wasn't meant to be

Funny timing for this thread to be revived because we went to an archery intro course today at zoo lake. IT WAS THE BEST! My word what a great sport. I'll 1000% be back

So far this year the average price of a single Super Bowl ticket is $7589. Which is almost 20% higher than last year. The stadium will only be filled to a third capacity with 22000 people, of which 7500 tickets have been given away for free to Healthcare workers. Pretty cool gesture.

Hehe, yes, I did a little double count there just to make the moan sound a little better... 2 hours is a lot better. But tomorrow we've gone from no shedding under the old schedule to 2 x 2 hour sessions in the new one. Little bit frustrating.

Its so sad. There is quite literally nothing you can do. And if we're honest what use is standing in the road peacefully protesting going to do. (Not wanting to open a large can of worms here, but on the face of it) This is why I understand when people dig up roads and burn things to get some attention. They're just so desperately out of options.

Same as my folks (and they're not out East so you're not alone). But they just had a 24 hour outage till this morning. And their substation must be one of the oldest ricketiest in Joburg because every time it rains with any sort of vigour, they're out.

Haha great selfie! you look thrilled to be out in the dark and wet

Third 'shed in 12 hours. It's going well here. Really well.

What wizardry is in that seatpost? Seems to have a lot of extra angles to it

Last month they said the board would meet by mid-Feb. Whether that brings a decision or not I don't know. Its dead in the water either way.