why no 29er on DH rigs

[RodTi]

Getting touchy rather quickly eh, take it on the chin as much as you dish it out bud. Pretty sure Eldron's post was as tongue in cheek as yours.

 

+1

What he said!

[Danger Dassie]

Not to mention that almost everywhere else in the world, it's the long travel bikes (140mm plus) that outsell the XC bikes. Purely for the fun factor, I'd imagine. We're one of the only places where XC outsells everything else...

 

Yeah, a mate moved to NZ this year. Reckons the 'serious' riders there are mostly on AM/Trail bikes with long travel that are predominately riding the trails. UP and down.....

 

Either way, as long as people are out riding and having fun I reckon.

[patches]

I thouhgt a certain 2 characters in the threads title (them being the "D" and the "H") would make this a relatively quiet one...

 

...seems another 2 characters are what have sparked all the debate (the "29")

Edited June 15, 2011 by patches

[TNT1]

Now everyone and there dog has been carrying on and on about 29 inch tyres are the best thing for downhill yet the DH kings dont touch them why is this???????????

 

Cause people like patches are either riding, or smoking dope, and didn't realise that a thing like a 29er existed

[nigelhicks]

I don't know how big the downhill bike market is but it seems very niche to me. Stands to reason that development of 29ers would start in the biggest market first. That does not mean that they will be better than 26 ers but I sm sure that over time course designers might be induced to built courses that are more appropriate to 29 ers.

 

Isn't it great that this wonderful sport of our can grow and develop. Pity some of us are too rigid to move eith the times. Change is inevitable. Get used to it

 

Leaves room to fetch flame retardant and alcohol refill go deal calmly with Luddites ..........

 

DH may be niche in South Africa ... but thats pretty much where it stops ... SA has the largest sales volume of XC bikes IN THE WORLD! And this is due to our racing focus being on XC and Marathon, combined with the lack of trail centres. If you read any of the international magazines most are geared towards 26 inch trail bikes and DH bikes as this is what the European and American markets are driving towards. (but this is all due to most riding being in the Alps and Rockies respectively). We the consumer become "brain-washed" by the markets into believing that a certain bike is correct and is "the best type of bike" - this is not true as all the distributors are trying to do is move their product.

 

You also mentioned that courses will eventually be altered to suit the bikes ... this again can be seen slightly differently. As our market (as said earlier) is skewed towards Marathon races on flat gravel road over hundreds of kilometers - the manufacturers come up with a bike to custom suit those events (Exactly the same as a professional team deciding on tire choice, suspension set up etc at different events on different courses).

Here In SA the market is becoming saturated with the 29er buzz - and thats all good and well as for our events they are the right type of bike - BUT go to the Megavalanche and such alpine touring events and see how many riders are on light weight 29ers ... it will be the VAST MINORITY!

 

So what it boils down to is HORSES FOR COURSES

[grb285]

Getting touchy rather quickly eh, take it on the chin as much as you dish it out bud. Pretty sure Eldron's post was as tongue in cheek as yours.

It's cool 'bud', I get the jest. My post was a joke too. I'm not being serious when I expect a XC boy to understand the concept of going fast down technical terrain. It's a cheque he'd never ever coax his ass to cash.

 

None of us wear body armour and fullface helmets because we want to. It's because we need to. No pads and a little XC aero pisspot will end in a bloody mess. I wipe out at least twice every time I ride. I get up, dust myself off, and carry on. I wouldn't be able to stand up without protection.

 

Cant we just all get along without the need to have some XC vs DH debate. Seriously I could care less. This is about 29er DH bikes, which I've said I think there's a need for, especially with the taller guys. Will they replace the 26" bike. I doubt it. Will the next DH WC be won on a 29er? I doubt that too. Ask Greg what he thinks. I'd be keen to hear his answer.

[patches]

Cause people like patches are either riding, or smoking dope, and didn't realise that a thing like a 29er existed

 

yeah, I try distract myself from the fact that I'm 'under-privileged' and don't own one! haha!

 

...Mark Ellis' hub signature says something about an extra 3" changing your life... pity the 29er guys don't know that they're adding 3" to the wrong place.

 

Increase a fork (on a 26er) from 4" to 7" and that bike will roll rocks way better than a 29er.

 

but climbing with a 7" FR bike isn't fun... so as Nigel and others have said... Horses for Courses.

[AndreZA]

...I wouldn't be able to stand up without protection....

 

That's what she said.

[nigelhicks]

OK - now to get back to the topic of WHY ARE THERE NO 29ers ON THE WORLD CUP DH SCENE!

 

This is actually quite simple and although everyone is under the impression that 29ers "roll better over rocks" and "are better in technical" ... this is a fallacy! - Although the new 29er bread will jump up and say "the angle of approach is less so you dont get bogged down" thats all good at well at low speed, climbing or on a flat road ... BUT when it comes to DH the difference comes in the bikes manoverability and its speed in and out of corners.

 

Take a straight line start between a BMX, a 26 inch MTB, a 29er, and a 26' DH bike... Who will win? The BMX will win HANDS DOWN as it is lighter, stiffer, more agile, and the smaller wheels are easier to accellerate. This is what sets DH aside from (our XC market here) ... XC courses generally dont have a million sharp turns that you may stall in - they are all about overall pace over extended periods. The short sharp burst that is DH therefore requires a bike with the following

 

Low centre of gravity - for good balance

SLACK headangle - for riding down steep stuff

Small, stiff wheels - for acceleration out of the gate and corners.

 

Although there are a couple of companies looking into prototypes of 29er DH bikes - NONE of these are being tested on the WC circuit. And remember the best place to test one would have been at our WC round in PMB as it was the flattest track on the circuit. Just shows that the 29er does not have the agility that is needed in a bike for the World Cup Circuit - not yet anyway! If you think of the amount of NEW proto-stuff that Shimano, SRAM, RockShox, GIANT and ALL the other manufacturers test - where do they try it first? ON THE WORLD CUPS! So if its not there yet ... it wont be for a WHILE ... most probably because it doesnt work the best to suit the riders needs!

[Tumbleweed]

You also mentioned that courses will eventually be altered to suit the bikes ... So what it boils down to is HORSES FOR COURSES

 

These two things are kinda contradictory.

 

Many MTB riders own more than one bike. So they have the horses. Why would the courses change?

[MintSauce]

But but but they roll better over rocks (big in down hill .....) and they instantly make you a better technical as well as faster rider so I am sure it is only a a matter of time ....

 

Apparently they can also make you pregnant. True story.

 

 

 

On the topic, maybe a 29er DH or AM rig would do well at a Mega Avalanche?

 

It would be interesting to see a comparison. I think it would do well. While it could win I don't think it will be the cause of a win. To me personally, neither is faster. It's more about a slightly different feel to the rider in certain conditions.

 

I should clarify to the other peeps on this thread that I like 29ers but as long as I'm too poor to afford more than one bike, it will likely always be a 26er. My point is just that all the marketing BS combined with all these wet-dreaming, know-nothings(a marketing man's golden egg) and the misinterpreted facts about 29ers that they gush at the trailhead make me want to vomit.

 

IT'S NOT ABOUT THE BIKE(that's one thing LA wasn't lying about)

 

 

It explains the outrage when we wanted to make the DH runs at Tokai uni-directional. Overseas we wouldnt have even had that argument. It's huge there. We're off to Whister next year and we're booking basically a year in advance so we can get a spot.

 

Do you mean to say that the trails overseas would automatically be uni-directional? If you are, you are wrong. In the bikeparks they're all uni-directional. In fact, there are signs saying "Do not ride uphill. Park privileges will be revoked"

 

However, on every single trail outside the park the trails are multi-directional and IMBA rules apply. I.O.W, uphill rider has right of way. Don't even try not stopping and just squeezing by an uphill rider while descending cos you'll get an earful. Tokai is not a bikepark, simply a network of trails in a specific area.

 

But let's not get off-topic....just thought I'd clarify since you brought it up

 

And you really don't need to book a year in advance, not even if you wanted to go during Crankworx

[nigelhicks]

This is about 29er DH bikes, which I've said I think there's a need for, especially with the taller guys. Ask Greg what he thinks. I'd be keen to hear his answer.

 

GRB285 ... you think the same way i do ... wheel size is relative to body height ... HOWEVER - look at Mr Minn, Peat and Gracia - ALL are like 6 foot 4 and are still on 26 inch DH bikes due to the agility of the bike and wheel strength (as far as i know ... could be its just that Santa Cruz doesnt make a 29er DH bike - but if this is the case why arent they testing a proto?)

 

I know that greg and cedric both love their 29er trail and XC bikes - but still go back to 26 for DH ... that has to say something for the manoverability (Not the straight line flow) of the 26 in the tech stuff

[A&A]

I am new to this forum, must say forums seems to be forums, this debate sounds like the JPEG vs RAW (photographic forums) or BMW vs Merc (car forums) or Inboard vs Outboard (boat forums) barefoot vs soled (runners forum) Nikon vs Canon (camera forums). Thanks goodness for the invention of 29er, else what would we be debating??

[nigelhicks]

These two things are kinda contradictory.

 

Many MTB riders own more than one bike. So they have the horses. Why would the courses change?

 

HAHAHAHA - bit of missunderstanding of what i meant there Tumbleweed ...

 

"You also mentioned that courses will eventually be altered to suit the bikes"

- this was in reply to the other post by ... i forgot ... who mentioned that the courses would eventually change to suit the 29er bike ... and if you read on i said that the COURSES WONT CHANGE .. its the BIKES that have ...

=

"So what it boils down to is HORSES FOR COURSES"

 

[MintSauce]

I am new to this forum, must say forums seems to be forums, this debate sounds like the JPEG vs RAW (photographic forums) or BMW vs Merc (car forums) or Inboard vs Outboard (boat forums) barefoot vs soled (runners forum) Nikon vs Canon (camera forums). Thanks goodness for the invention of 29er, else what would we be debating??

 

Campy vs Shimano...?

[TNT1]

this debate sounds like the JPEG vs RAW (photographic forums) or BMW vs Merc (car forums) or Inboard vs Outboard (boat forums) barefoot vs soled (runners forum) Nikon vs Canon (camera forums).

 

But, dude, we debate all those things right here as well. Who needs a dedicated forum