Sit back and have a good........

[Pantani]

 

pantani' date=' you still missing it.

Safe cycling is not a rule book or some sort of manual, it is about having respect for your own well being and then also for those around you.

 

popeye, ek volenteer!!!  Wanneer kry ek my pepper spray?

[/quote']

 

Figures of speech....

 

[Canaris]

After every one has flamed pantini, I beleive that he has a valid point. I have cycled in many races both licenced and "fun", and when the hammer is down and there is a cross wind, suddenly there is no middle line to the road. THIS IS A REALITY. I have seen fun riders licenced cyclists and entire PROFESSIONAL teams ignoring there own safety in order to use the entire road.

 

 

 

This however does not make it safe, fair or right.

 

 

 

I pay the organisers to ENFORCE all the rules that the advertise. I believe that just as the "no helmet- no ride" rule is enforced, so should the white line rule be enforced. However, if the rule is not or cannot be enforced then it should be removed, and the organiser should state explicitly that the risk is all the cyclists.

 

 

 

SO the responsibility also lies with the race organiser who undertook to enforce all the agreed upon rules. I do not think there is one cyclist that would appeal if the commissare fined and DQed them (and ALL the others- especially the FIRST cyclist over the white line).

 

 

 

It is part of cycling culture worldwide to play cat and mouse with the commisare, and to bend all the rules to a breaking point.

[Windbreaker]

 

More Popeye

 

Dit is wel 'n goeie idee maar die probleem wat ons het is dat daar nie van die ryers wat wil vir die "werk" volunteer! It is unfortunately so in many occasions that there are many ideas but no-one prepared to assist in implementing. Maybe we could set up a meeting with the PPA committee and parties interested in getting involved in sorting this out. Popeye give me a call at the Cycle Tour office later

 

I did suggest exactly that w.r.t the "racing marshals" for all funrides; we have a problem that most of the start marshals for PPA events end up riding at the back of the short ride.  So we went ahead and tried it (within the last three weeks)' date=' looked for volunteers via the weekly PPA e-mail to members, and also here on the hub.  The net result was exactly 5 volunteers initially (which is great, 5 is a darn sight better than none!), but it's not exactly as though we were inundated with offers...

[/quote']Having volunteer marshals in the group is only a single aspect of the solution. What good are they if they are simply ignored - and they will be ignored!!!! This I know from first hand experience. Their efforts are completely undermined if the organisation does not take a clear stand. The rules have to be enforced then see how many volunteers you will get.

 

[Red Zone]

I sort of agree with both sides. I was in VA and just fell off the back at the end of Hells, If I had cut the corner I probably could have latched back on. I can understand that if I was a sponsored rider or the race was that much more important I may have cut the corner. I took the decision to ride inside the line and get dropped, but the temptation was there to cut. Bigtime! Do I care that I got dropped - a bit. But my solution is just to get a bit stronger.

 

But if you are racing for position and the only way to respond to an attack is to go over the line, 9 time out of 10 a sponsored rider will cross the line.

 

I have ridden all the way from the lowest PPA groups into the Leagues, in every group there are guys cutting the line. this is a culture which has been bred, and will take a serious mindshift to alter.

[Pantani]

 

Having volunteer marshals in the group is only a single aspect of the solution. What good are they if they are simply ignored - and they will be ignored!!!! This I know from first hand experience. Their efforts are completely undermined if the organisation does not take a clear stand. The rules have to be enforced then see how many volunteers you will get.

 

Too true, and something I have said already... Being a lone voice for change in a bunch is fine but you really need to have the full force of the law behind you to effect change, not muted lip service. So if we say we're disqualifying people, then let's disqualify them. No need for what I witness at races all the time when you are warned... Why warn someone when they know the rules? Disqualify them then what the ripple effect....

 

[Brakkies Sport Fotos]

Homer, I think the volunteer thing sounds like "you stand with a flag".

 

 

 

Maybe if the IDEE is explained that we investigate to get Racing Marchell, not volunteers.

 

 

 

Its a no pay job, you race as before but only take responsibility to try and make it safer.

 

 

 

So:

 

 

 

David, I' going to give you a Call.

 

 

 

Suggestion:

 

 

 

We dont have to go "FULL FORCE", I'm not talking about the leagues and leagues groups, Those guys got a CSA licence and they should be handled in a different way as the normal A - Z groups.

 

 

 

Lets start implement it in the major bunches:

 

 

 

When leagues is runnings, the A-B group is small and fast,

 

 

 

The C, E, F, and G groups defnitally needs to be policed. because they do catch slower riders and creating bigger bunches.

 

 

 

Why dont we try it for (lets say) 3 bunches from Jan.

 

 

 

The marchells dont have to be in front or stronger, wherever he landed up in a bunch, he is helping policing it.

 

 

 

The question is: If this marchell is doing his job, getting the culprits number, WILL THE PPA STAND BEHIND HIM.HER taking their word and punish accordingly?

 

 

 

No use in going through this and the culprits name stay on the results table.

 

 

 

ONE MORE SUGGESTION:

 

 

 

The results table needs to have a DQ Section with a code :

 

 

 

Like:

 

1 = Transgress the whiteline

 

2 = Swear at a PPA Official

 

3 = Drop and litter on route

 

4 = Starting in the wrong group

 

 

 

 

 

So it will look like this:

 

 

 

DQ Section:

 

 

 

Koos Pampoen - C967 - DQ    -   2

[Brakkies Sport Fotos]

Oh, forgot to mention - You dont have to race every race, you turn up as normal and ride. No special treatment or favours from PPA, just giving time towards cycling

 

 

 

DavidB = I volunteer to do this in the "C" bunch from Jan 08 for every race I enter. We need to discuss how the spietkop will be identified in the group, maybe a green armband like the captains band in soccer.

 

 

 

I most probably start in "C" in Jan on the hills, and will work my way through to E or F, but the only good thing about this is than that I will be seen in C, THEN d, then E and finally slog it out in F.

 

 

 

[Canaris]

I suggest that you place "marshalls" at key points (where there is going to be a cross wind or corner). Give them cameras (if possible) that have date time stamps on the photo's, so that the offending cyclists can have a wee discussion with the commissare after the race, and see the proof- like a speeding trap, but totally diferent.

[fandacious]

DQ Section:

Koos Pampoen - C967 - DQ    -   2

 

What the hell did Koos ever do to you??

[Canaris]

Koos is a member of the illuminati

[Pantani]

 

DQ Section:

 

Koos Pampoen - C967 - DQ    -   2

 

What the hell did Koos ever do to you??

 

Bwahahahaha... lol....

 

[Brakkies Sport Fotos]

Kona, people wants to ride and yherefor not much volunteers.

 

 

 

We needs to look at options getting volunteers but have them race at the same time.

 

 

 

Wait to the 99'er were bunches dont drop, faster ones catch the front bunch and 400 cycle towards D'Ville. No hills to brake it up.

 

 

 

PPA needs to look at races and profiles and react before hand.

 

 

 

Another one spring to mind, the Breakfast ride.

 

 

 

Look at those in the southern side, big hilles, bunches braking up, The most "red zonee" here will not be the A-Z groups but the leagues.

 

 

 

On the 99'er and Breakfast ride, its the A- Z groups that transgress because of the lack of hills.

[HomerSimpson]

More Popeye

 

Dit is wel 'n goeie idee maar die probleem wat ons het is dat daar nie van die ryers wat wil vir die "werk" volunteer! It is unfortunately so in many occasions that there are many ideas but no-one prepared to assist in implementing. Maybe we could set up a meeting with the PPA committee and parties interested in getting involved in sorting this out. Popeye give me a call at the Cycle Tour office later

 

I did suggest exactly that w.r.t the "racing marshals" for all funrides; we have a problem that most of the start marshals for PPA events end up riding at the back of the short ride.  So we went ahead and tried it (within the last three weeks)' date=' looked for volunteers via the weekly PPA e-mail to members, and also here on the hub.  The net result was exactly 5 volunteers initially (which is great, 5 is a darn sight better than none!), but it's not exactly as though we were inundated with offers...

[/quote']Having volunteer marshals in the group is only a single aspect of the solution. What good are they if they are simply ignored - and they will be ignored!!!! This I know from first hand experience. Their efforts are completely undermined if the organisation does not take a clear stand. The rules have to be enforced then see how many volunteers you will get.

 

You make a good point...it is a little frustrating when a rider is reported and then eventually nothing is done (or seen to be done), but apparently the days when a simple diciplinary hearing resulted in a suspension is over...apparently we now have riders turning up with lawyers, threatening court action   BUT, the reason people are not volunteering is simply human nature.  Most of us want to sit and blame somebody else when things go wrong.  Very few people are willing to actually do stuff.

 

From experience I know that when you have no road closure (as is the case in most instances) and your start groups get bigger than 50 riders, you end up with problems in traffic.  Simply put, when you have 150 + riders in a group, you will get problems.  We had people all over the road in the lower bunches as well.  The same idiot nearly got totalled by a car three times on the Wemmershoek road.

[AfreekduSoet]

pantani,   figure of speech, don't think so.

 

A manual or rule book is an external driver of behaviour where as acting out of respect for self and others is an internal driver.  Beeeeeg dif.

[ORCA]

Everyone done jumping to conclusions now?

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If this picture was taken 2 seconds later, everybody would have raved how the VA?s stayed left of the white line.

 

What happened that the VA?s came out as quit a big group at the top of Helz, going thought the ditch at the top, there was a little bit of chaos, witch let some gaps opened and as we closed the gaps, the riders in front drifted towards the centre line, not realizing how the line follow up behind them. We went over the centre line for a brief moment and back following the racing line.

 

FROM MY POINT OF VIEW IT WAS DEFINATLY NOT DONE INTENTIONALLY!!!

 

And everyone who knows me, will know that?s not how I ride  

[Spinnekop]

Is a solution not to have rolling road closures for the racing groups (Elites' date=' VA, VB & ladies).......only for bigger races like Burger and in smaller provincial league races limit the size of the entries for these groups......make it more "difficult" to be a racer. I race in Sub-Vets regularly and this season the reason i.m.o. why there was no white line crossing was a) much smaller bunch than usual (summer league) and b) not as hard as summer league (less surging).....top guys raced Elites for Spring. On Sunday in VA I didn't see any white line crossing to be honest (photo's was the first), but it usually happens when bunches are big with lots of "concertina" effect or surges where the back of the bunch guys suffer the most and through cause & effect are "forced" (if that's logical) to do anything to stay in touch........even putting their lives in danger (ALL racers get into Pantani mode when racing and safety is removed from the equation........I have also been guilty in the past).  Either rolling road closures or full closures for "bigger" races I see as the best option......my 5c.

BTW In effect, our VA bunch had a sort of rolling closure on Sunday on the R44 on the way back with a Metro cop car in the oncoming lane forcing cars off the road.......worked like a charm; would have been perfect for the whole route. Please note that my posting is not endorsing the white line crossing ......I just trying to offer solutions.

[/quote']

 

The only post in this stupid thread that makes sense and no one comments on it.

Weird. 

 

You will DQ the riders.  Bans will be implemented.  Fines will be handed out.  The problem will continue.

 

So how do you kill it?  Give the sportsman save passage to compete in the sport he loves.........

You don't see rugby players ply on tar, do you?  No.  They have organisations that HELPS them play save....build a save enviroment to play in.........

We as cyclists just want the same....give us rolling closure and the problem is solved!!