Challenge Cape Town postponed

[ChallengeCapeTown]

Victoria, you are misleading/misled. There is no way on earth the traffic department/s/City Council gave permission for the cycle route proposed. Even the Argus has to fight for it every year. Stop lying to people, and admit you f@£$%^&*d up.

 

Hi Onetrackmind,

 

Yes, you are correct the Argus has to fight for their closures every year. The cycle at launched was a route in principle agreed with the City. Following launch the route evolved to one which took into account road works in Kalk Bay and a ultimately a different philosophy to how the cycling would be managed. Not rolling road closures but rather coned lane/road closures. The tricky bits come back on return into town and contra flow cycling which is norm elsewhere is not considered appropriate in our case. Just getting Chappies closed for the day for athletes is no mean achievement given we not mass participation in the same sense as Argus. So we are fighting to bring the very best for the triathletes. This requires a bit more ingenuity. we learning from this and will be back stronger in the 2012. We want to race as much as you do. Grant

[ChallengeCapeTown]

I raced Challenge Roth 2011 in Germany this year, what a awesome experience i will never forget with over 250 000 spectators lining the course like in the Tour de France. One of the best organised events i've ever been at. Over 3500 competitors and with entries selling out within 24hours after opening 1 year ahead of race day!

 

Its very sad news, but looking back one could've seen it coming after they formal 'Stop rumors letter' without any follow-up with the confirmed course a few weeks back.

 

Couldn't they just do it like IMSA 3 X 60k bike lap and why that run through the city center..? Why not hug the beautiful coastline and eliminate half of the road closures already???

 

This would've been my 3rd IM distance race for the year. Guess i can only keep on tapering and race BSG Energade Midmar now next weekend... Whoooopy!!

 

Will think twice about doing it in 2012.

 

Hi Warrior,

 

Would love to laps and was one of the solutions tabled. Unfortunately contraflow and the road closure that would be required as a result of contraflow on the bike was not a solution that was accepted. In tri terms yes it is a great solution with loads of benefits but the implications are that you need then a full road rather than coned lane closure and given CT is a well visited City the compromise on that solution too much. The run through the City was out, as much as we want to get to experience all the City on the run, the practicalities of marshaling over such a long distance as well added risks, tired athletes, etc. The is a very short and simple lapped solution waterfront and promenade based.

 

You been at Roth which is fantastic. Now you know where we would like to sit and if this is a setback in getting there, then so be it. We are all disappointed and believe me, we fighting to give the athletes the best otherwise we would not be doing it. Will make 2012 worth it. Grant

[ChallengeCapeTown]

Hi Lizbet,

 

The initial route did evolve due to ongoing road works in Kalk Bay and as you say concerns over managing over such a distance. The first 45km meant that the athletes we only two hours apart two manage and large by the time you get to the peninsula. Nonethless, much simpler solutions we worked through and ultimately resolved but critically ensuring equal racing line for the age groupers as the pro was most important.

 

Short lapped solution which typically work in tri are not as easy to solve in the cape Town context. We taking the lessons learnt, feedback to create the best race we can for the athletes.

[gummibear]

From the organisers

 

08.07.12 - Challenge Roth, Germany (limited numbers on first come first served basis)

 

That's a awesome race.

You can't compare the organizing of that with the Cape Town race.

[ChallengeCapeTown]

Definitely - how did they expect to get full road closure for this route with only a few guys - either very naive or very stupid.

 

Hi LuckyLuke,

 

Coned lane closures for the race. There was never an attempt to get full Argus style road closures for the event. Given the distance coned land closure would give the athlete the best course over the 180km as looped closures are not possible.

[Puxi]

After IMSA many people moaned about how Paul Wolff does things and market share will be taken away from his race etc etc.....This would never of happened to him!!!

 

Who is laughing now.

[ChallengeCapeTown]

That to be honest is my big burning itch here. These guys have done the Cape Town brand damage, I don't know what went on behind the scenes but it would be very interesting to see exactly what was agreed to from the city. The city is trying to push the Cape Town marathon as a world class event, along the lines of new yokr,boston, london etc. They should have raised a red flag ages ago, but let's see who gets the fingers pointing for the blame game.

 

I would LOVE to see:

• road management plan
• suggestions for crossing the muizenberg sunrise market area twice...wonder if grant ever saw what this looks like on a sunday?
• any objections raised by citizens whose roads had been closed(assuming none since no one seems to have been told)
• an explanation of what exactly a 'rolling road closure' is for a 17hour race.

 

Hi SteveCT,

 

The route at launch was a route in principle agreed by all at launch. The route was to tie in with development aspects with the City. The Muizenburg aspect coupled with Kalk Bay roadworks put that section out and plan moved more peninsula driven, simpler, safer. The rolling road closure was a solution for that route and even something something that is used on argus when last athletes is gone, roads then open up again. Ultimately, coned lane closures are the most pragmatic solution for the race due to impact on tourism, residents, etc. It is ensuring that the pro and age grouper get same unhindered racing line is the crux of this.

 

We and even with the stick we getting that this can be a special race, this is a setback and yes some lessons have been learnt. We want a great race as much as the athletes, it is why we do it.

[gummibear]

Hi SteveCT,

The route at launch was a route in principle agreed by all at launch. The route was to tie in with development aspects with the City.

 

Was that route approved on paper when the entries opened?

[Shebeen]

Hi SteveCT,

 

The route at launch was a route in principle agreed by all at launch. The route was to tie in with development aspects with the City. The Muizenburg aspect coupled with Kalk Bay roadworks put that section out and plan moved more peninsula driven, simpler, safer. The rolling road closure was a solution for that route and even something something that is used on argus when last athletes is gone, roads then open up again. Ultimately, coned lane closures are the most pragmatic solution for the race due to impact on tourism, residents, etc. It is ensuring that the pro and age grouper get same unhindered racing line is the crux of this.

 

We and even with the stick we getting that this can be a special race, this is a setback and yes some lessons have been learnt. We want a great race as much as the athletes, it is why we do it.

Grant,

correct me if i'm wrong, but

rolling road closure = tour de france (+- 30mins for the peleton to pass through)

full road closure = argus(full lockdown, which they eventually open up).

I'm no expert on this, but the guys at CSA can maybe help.

 

ok, well since the baden powell route is still on your site, excuse my confusion there. When you initially proposed having a race along baden powell, I thought that you were either a visionary or just plain mad. also don't know how including cape point adds up to 180km. moot point.

 

I didn't see any notification of any sort for route closures/disruptions in the south peninsula since April. The False Bay Echo letter section would have been chockers with complaints if this went ahead.

 

You must have some serious event management experience behind your team, to be able to get the challenge franchise, as well as lead CT management this far on the path. Thanks for the replies - Good luck for the future, I don't know how you're going to dig it out of this hole but go for it anyway!

[TNT1]

but the guys at CSA can maybe help.

 

 

 

A: You must be joking (did you you see CSA's road closure that resulted in canceled stages during ToSA), and

B: Why on earth would CSA (even if they were competent) assist with road closure for a Triathlon? Isn't there an SA triathlon body?

[davem]

Hi CCT Grant

 

Well done on coming on here and engaging with the athletes. Also the free entry into Roth or other event is a great gesture.

 

Having done two IMSA, when the CCT announcement was made, I was really excited. I ultimately chose not to do CCT for the following reasons:

 

1. The swim course is extemely daunting and I believe the field will spread out very significantly right at the beginning.

2. The very tough planned single lap cycle course will spread the field out over a very significant distance, likely close to 100km. (A six hour cycle at IMSA means you get lapped by the top Pros ie 60km spread) A relatively small field over this distance will mean that it is likely that an athlete would be out of sight of all other athletes at times.

3. This would make marshalling very thin on the ground, and place a greater degree of self reliance on the competitor if something went wrong.

4. Technical support would be a less accessible due to the large spread.

5. The wind factor makes all of the above 10x more concerning. It increases the probability of not finishing dramatically.

6. Spectator value to family and friends is dramatically reduced due to single lap bike and run. (Start, T1, T2, Finish vs 11 times on IMSA course. Spectator support is a major motivator, not seeing anyone for probably 180km would be emotionally tough.)

 

In my evaluation, the event would have be too high risk of not finishing, likely unenjoyable for myself except in the most hardcore self-challenging mindset, and completely boring for my partner who thoroughly enjoys supporting me at events.

 

On the bright side, a successful event would probably be rated as one of the most challenging and quite likely the most scenic on the planet.

 

In formulating your plans for next year, may I suggest steering away from the ultimate grand Challenge for the elite athletes, and move towards a race which is more enjoyable, less risky and more spectator friendly for us Middle of the Packers who actually make the race possible for the Pros.

 

Given this years failure, before you will get cash out of me next year, I will expect to see a copy of the CT City Council's approval published on the website.

 

I hope this helps towards getting next year off the ground.

Edited October 21, 2011 by davem

[Garfield2010]

A: You must be joking (did you you see CSA's road closure that resulted in canceled stages during ToSA), and

B: Why on earth would CSA (even if they were competent) assist with road closure for a Triathlon? Isn't there an SA triathlon body?

 

Ja, isnt this why we pay the day license fee extra at every event (both cycling and tri)?

[gripen]

Hi CCT Grant

 

Well done on coming on here and engaging with the athletes. Also the free entry into Roth or other event is a great gesture.

 

Having done two IMSA, when the CCT announcement was made, I was really excited. I ultimately chose not to do CCT for the following reasons:

 

1. The swim course is extemely daunting and I believe the field will spread out very significantly right at the beginning.

2. The very tough planned single lap cycle course will spread the field out over a very significant distance, likely close to 100km. (A six hour cycle at IMSA means you get lapped by the top Pros ie 60km spread) A relatively small field over this distance will mean that it is likely that an athlete would be out of sight of all other athletes at times.

3. This would make marshalling very thin on the ground, and place a greater degree of self reliance on the competitor if something went wrong.

4. Technical support would be a less accessible due to the large spread.

5. The wind factor makes all of the above 10x more concerning. It increases the probability of not finishing dramatically.

6. Spectator value to family and friends is dramatically reduced due to single lap bike and run. (Start, T1, T2, Finish vs 11 times on IMSA course. Spectator support is a major motivator, not seeing anyone for probably 180km would be emotionally tough.)

 

In my evaluation, the event would have be too high risk of not finishing, likely unenjoyable for myself except in the most hardcore self-challenging mindset, and completely boring for my partner who thoroughly enjoys supporting me at events.

 

On the bright side, a successful event would probably be rated as one of the most challenging and quite likely the most scenic on the planet.

 

In formulating your plans for next year, may I suggest steering away from the ultimate grand Challenge for the elite athletes, and move towards a race which is more enjoyable, less risky and more spectator friendly for us Middle of the Packers who actually make the race possible for the Pros.

 

Given this years failure, before you will get cash out of me next year, I will expect to see a copy of the CT City Council's approval published on the website.

 

I hope this helps towards getting next year off the ground.

 

This is an excellent response - thanks davem. I believe the primary reason most people stayed away is reflected in your concerns - specifically about the difficulty of the bike course as well as the spectator options.

 

I'd like to add that to attract more entrants and spectators, some form of laps be incorporated in at least the marathon course (where you really need the spectators) and in addition, spectator shuttles from point A to point B to point C (there's a lot of time to work out how to do this, but it would be great for a non-lap cycle race!). The other carrot would be packaged bike transport and/or accommodation options as part of the entry. Going even further, possibly family or support options as part of the entry (example: tourist packages for the day after, maybe a cape point visit or table mountain excursion). This would also help to attract foreigners as they would bring the family along too (the whole point of the race from the City's perspective).

[Garfield2010]

And why not make the transition on Table Mountain. You go up with the cable car, get dressed and come back down between disciplines.

[fabes]

Hi CCT Grant

 

Well done on coming on here and engaging with the athletes. Also the free entry into Roth or other event is a great gesture.

 

Having done two IMSA, when the CCT announcement was made, I was really excited. I ultimately chose not to do CCT for the following reasons:

 

1. The swim course is extemely daunting and I believe the field will spread out very significantly right at the beginning.

2. The very tough planned single lap cycle course will spread the field out over a very significant distance, likely close to 100km. (A six hour cycle at IMSA means you get lapped by the top Pros ie 60km spread) A relatively small field over this distance will mean that it is likely that an athlete would be out of sight of all other athletes at times.

3. This would make marshalling very thin on the ground, and place a greater degree of self reliance on the competitor if something went wrong.

4. Technical support would be a less accessible due to the large spread.

5. The wind factor makes all of the above 10x more concerning. It increases the probability of not finishing dramatically.

6. Spectator value to family and friends is dramatically reduced due to single lap bike and run. (Start, T1, T2, Finish vs 11 times on IMSA course. Spectator support is a major motivator, not seeing anyone for probably 180km would be emotionally tough.)

 

In my evaluation, the event would have be too high risk of not finishing, likely unenjoyable for myself except in the most hardcore self-challenging mindset, and completely boring for my partner who thoroughly enjoys supporting me at events.

 

On the bright side, a successful event would probably be rated as one of the most challenging and quite likely the most scenic on the planet.

 

In formulating your plans for next year, may I suggest steering away from the ultimate grand Challenge for the elite athletes, and move towards a race which is more enjoyable, less risky and more spectator friendly for us Middle of the Packers who actually make the race possible for the Pros.

 

Given this years failure, before you will get cash out of me next year, I will expect to see a copy of the CT City Council's approval published on the website.

 

I hope this helps towards getting next year off the ground.

 

Nice post Dave

[davem]

On getting lapped at IMSA. It was really cool when the 1st Lady lead vehicle rolled past me, followed shortly by multiple World Champion Chrissie. Gave her a big shout. Great memory for me.