Cricket......

[gemmerbal]

agreed

I think Standard Bank is not disappointed that they stopped their sponsorship...

[Mntboy]

correct, the big difference being Biff was 23/24 years old and in the infancy stage of ultimately becoming our most successful test captain, and one of the most prolific internationally. Flaf on the other hand is at the back end of his career and tasked with leading a host of average cricketers at best.

 

I think it is a slightly unfair comparison, for more reasons than stated above.

 

Since that time, the sports ministry has become a lot more aggressive with their "transformation targets", the roll on effect of that being that our domestic cricket standard has dropped significantly, from club level all the way up to provincial/franchise level. If you want a strong national side, you need a good quality club cricketers - that is where it starts, it doesn't start at provincial level.

Agreed.

 

Like I said the recent appointments by CSA is a step in the right direction but as you so sagely point out there is a lot wrong that needs fixing.

 

The quota system definitely needs an overhaul and it needs to be more like the equal opportunity that is being used in rugby. It's really sad that rugby has outstripped cricket as it has. As a guy who also loves his rugby I find it incredible that the 'quota' players were, imho, merit selections including the back up options. All this in a relatively short period of time as well.

 

Also KP's suggestion of the Kolpak players being allowed to play for the national team is great but it will only work if these players also then play for a local franchise as well. This however is a short term answer. As you said we need the clubs to be strong too so some planning needs to put in order that'll allow franchise players to be available for club duty too. Like I said there's a lot that needs changing.

[Shebeen]

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/28576218/south-africa-docked-six-wtc-points-fined-60-percent-match-fees-slow-rate-englan

 

I have been moaning about this consistently. Now we have WTC points docked, and rightfully so.

 

Thank goodness the series is over.

 

I'm going conspiracy theory here.

Slow over rate from both teams, why SA get pinged and not one of the BIG THREE?

 

Testmatch #1, 3rd innings, 61.4 overs in 310 minutes, 11.88 per hour..england bowling

average for that match - 12.52 overs per hour. - no sanction for ENG

 

test match #4, SA get pinged for 3 overs too slow, minus 6 WTC points, average over the match - 12.88 - naughty naughty

Eng - 13.1, no problemos

 

(the expectation is 15 overs an hour/ 30 a session)

 

I'm just using raw data, but double standards much?

I'm also convinced that they got the rub of all the umpire's call decisions too.

 

anf the bloody official coins they use are weighted

[Shebeen]

Agreed.

 

Like I said the recent appointments by CSA is a step in the right direction but as you so sagely point out there is a lot wrong that needs fixing.

 

The quota system definitely needs an overhaul and it needs to be more like the equal opportunity that is being used in rugby. It's really sad that rugby has outstripped cricket as it has. As a guy who also loves his rugby I find it incredible that the 'quota' players were, imho, merit selections including the back up options. All this in a relatively short period of time as well.

 

Also KP's suggestion of the Kolpak players being allowed to play for the national team is great but it will only work if these players also then play for a local franchise as well. This however is a short term answer. As you said we need the clubs to be strong too so some planning needs to put in order that'll allow franchise players to be available for club duty too. Like I said there's a lot that needs changing.

I dunno if we should be looking to rugby for magic answers on transformation, I'm not sure if they have done anything more than cricket has, and recent improvements in matchday squads seem to be more organic and over a long time period than anything special.

 

 

http://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/1157728/where-are-south-africa-s-black-african-batsmen

 

This sentiment was echoed by Hashim Amla in the Cricket Monthly earlier this year: "Most of the top bowlers in South Africa don't necessarily have to go to a top cricketing school, because their development happens later, whereas in batting, you have got to have the good coaching and then the upbringing of batting." Indeed, seam bowler Junior Dala, who recently made his ODI debut against Sri Lanka, is one of the few professional cricketers in South Africa who is not a product of an elite school.

[gemmerbal]

Shebeen, I feel you. But you will always read "after the umpires made due allowance for stoppages..." in there somewhere. DRS and all these bloody water breaks and glove changes basically make it impossible to achieve 15/hour, and that is also something that needs to be looked at and addressed. 

 

 

I'm going conspiracy theory here.

Slow over rate from both teams, why SA get pinged and not one of the BIG THREE?

 

Testmatch #1, 3rd innings, 61.4 overs in 310 minutes, 11.88 per hour..england bowling

average for that match - 12.52 overs per hour. - no sanction for ENG

 

test match #4, SA get pinged for 3 overs too slow, minus 6 WTC points, average over the match - 12.88 - naughty naughty

Eng - 13.1, no problemos

 

(the expectation is 15 overs an hour/ 30 a session)

 

I'm just using raw data, but double standards much?

I'm also convinced that they got the rub of all the umpire's call decisions too.

 

anf the bloody official coins they use are weighted

[Vetplant]

1. Start the games earlier... 8AM... plenty of extra time to get the alloted overs in at a reasonable rate

2. You can go to lunch after you have bowled 30 overs... 30 before tea ...30 before you are done.

3. 36 Penalty runs for every over not bowled before a predetermined time, calculated at a relaxed rate of 11 overs an hour.

 

Doubt you will see any matches not get through their overs

[Shebeen]

Shebeen, I feel you. But you will always read "after the umpires made due allowance for stoppages..." in there somewhere. DRS and all these bloody water breaks and glove changes basically make it impossible to achieve 15/hour, and that is also something that needs to be looked at and addressed. 

ja, but....why are england seemingly exempt? it seems far too subjective, but once you're pinged it's a huge penalty.

 

3 overs out of the 160 we bowled is nothing, less than 2%

on the formula of 15 an hour, we should have bowled 186. so they are saying they made an allowance down to 163, or 23 overs of time wasting?

 

I'd much much rather have simple on field penalties.

You get 2 hours to bowl the session of 30 overs. each over you miss is 12 runs to the batting team. You'll see 17 overs bowled in that first hour.

[gemmerbal]

im not so sure I agree with that sentiment. going to a good school wont magically give you good hand-eye coordination.

 

what will make a difference is if kids are playing cricket in the streets from 3/4/5 year old. now for me the only reason they arent doing that is because it is not being encouraged at home. yes we harp on about development and basic infrastructure and and and, but look at the squalor Indian kids grow up in and then tell me poverty is an excuse.

 

It may be that cricket is still attached to the many other historical injustices of our country, whether by accident or design.

 

I live in a traditionally very conservative afrikaans neighbourhood in Cape Town's northern suburbs. In my 10 years living at the end of the cul-de-sac, the first time I have seen kids play cricket in front of my house is when 2 african families moved in to 2 of the residences. I give them tennis balls, I have shown them how to tape a tennis ball in order to swing it like Wasim, tbh I still owe them a set of wickets I promised them for Christmas.

 

THAT is where it starts, not with me, but with the kids playing the game in the streets. and by us as a community getting involved. Yes my dogs go crazy because there's kids in the front yard and they are not used to them etc etc etc, but I put the dogs inside and let the kids have their fun. Or i take the rotties for a walk, but that is besides the point.

 

And let me tell you one thing, there is a youngster there that can bat. I see he already has WP U/13 colours, I will be following his progress closely.

 

GET THE COMMUNITIES involved and stop making it a political thing. Just let the kids play...

 

 

I dunno if we should be looking to rugby for magic answers on transformation, I'm not sure if they have done anything more than cricket has, and recent improvements in matchday squads seem to be more organic and over a long time period than anything special.

 

 

http://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/1157728/where-are-south-africa-s-black-african-batsmen

 

This sentiment was echoed by Hashim Amla in the Cricket Monthly earlier this year: "Most of the top bowlers in South Africa don't necessarily have to go to a top cricketing school, because their development happens later, whereas in batting, you have got to have the good coaching and then the upbringing of batting." Indeed, seam bowler Junior Dala, who recently made his ODI debut against Sri Lanka, is one of the few professional cricketers in South Africa who is not a product of an elite school.

[gemmerbal]

yes, the penalties need to be harsher, and maybe as suggested, calculated at the end of each session and effected immediately as a matter of penalty runs being added to the batting side's score. Something has to be done.

 

The big 3 will always get away with sandpaper, unless it is caught on tv. (funny how Supersport was criticized for being invasive when that happened, yet i recall players putting sugar in their trouser pockets during a tea break, dirt in the pocket of one England captain, etc etc)

ja, but....why are england seemingly exempt? it seems far too subjective, but once you're pinged it's a huge penalty.

 

3 overs out of the 160 we bowled is nothing, less than 2%

on the formula of 15 an hour, we should have bowled 186. so they are saying they made an allowance down to 163, or 23 overs of time wasting?

 

I'd much much rather have simple on field penalties.

You get 2 hours to bowl the session of 30 overs. each over you miss is 12 runs to the batting team. You'll see 17 overs bowled in that first hour.

Edited January 28, 2020 by gemmerbal

[Shebeen]

im not so sure I agree with that sentiment. going to a good school wont magically give you good hand-eye coordination.

 

I think it's more to do with correlation than causality. not to do with the school itself, but more how the people in it got there.

 

if you come from a wealthy family, the first five years of your life include lots of stimulation and toys, including OTs to check your hand eye and motor skills etc etc etc. you end up at a nice school.

 

if you come from a poor family. mom gets up at 4am to go work for that wealthy family, drops you at a gogo creche who has 36 kids in a container, 8 toys to play with and Etoonz on TV if you're lucky. you end up at a township school with 44 kids in the class, no textbooks and a teacher who is just there for the paycheque.

 

if you have the talent to be a good bowler, you can make it from the second scenario . if you have the talent to be a good batsmen, you might already be too far behind to catch up, even if you do go to that elite school eventually.

 

the reasoning makes sense to me, (I've heard similar arguments about black kids not being stimulated by staring at the back of mom's head from their towels), but don't know if this has really been proven. The issue has been identified, the next Brian Lara is running around our dusty streets somewhere. 

[Vetplant]

I think the provincial and national selectors are also lazy, in most sporting codes.

 

They just attend the top schools to scout their best players, instead of doing some real research in how to identify natural talent early-on and then develop it from there.

 

China has for decades tested their young children for signs of specific talent, to then nurture them into world-beating athletes. They are now advancing to Gene testing to find their prodigies.

 

SA National Sporting bodies should be able to develop some early detection protocols to identify your Wayde Van Niekerks as early as possible instead of relying on the School Sports leagues to develop and nurture your sports talents. 99.9% of school sport coaches are teachers or parents with absolutely no formal training.

 

It is amazing that we are able compete at all internationally.

[gemmerbal]

Shebeen as always I respect the fact that we might not quite agree on a particular point. All I can really draw on is my own observations and draw conclusions from that. 

 

When I think of probably the most talented sportsman I have seen ever produced in this country, he certainly does not come from a "traditional" background. Yes he went to Bishops and played provincial rugby and cricket and god knows what else, but he grew up playing the game in the streets. By the time he went to high school he was already playing sport beyond his age group. and let me tell you in the 90's school teams were not coached like nowadays, you simply had a teacher organising nets and transport to and from cricket matches. so no, on that basis, if we look at the stars produced from that era, I cannot agree with that sentiment. sadly i cannot speak for the hundreds of coloured and black cricketers, but I am sure there were many of them who were very talented and it was not because of their schooling.

 

(i apologise unreservedly for my lack of knowledge on the cricketers of the former South African Cricket Board)

I think it's more to do with correlation than causality. not to do with the school itself, but more how the people in it got there.

 

if you come from a wealthy family, the first five years of your life include lots of stimulation and toys, including OTs to check your hand eye and motor skills etc etc etc. you end up at a nice school.

 

if you come from a poor family. mom gets up at 4am to go work for that wealthy family, drops you at a gogo creche who has 36 kids in a container, 8 toys to play with and Etoonz on TV if you're lucky. you end up at a township school with 44 kids in the class, no textbooks and a teacher who is just there for the paycheque.

 

if you have the talent to be a good bowler, you can make it from the second scenario . if you have the talent to be a good batsmen, you might already be too far behind to catch up, even if you do go to that elite school eventually.

 

the reasoning makes sense to me, (I've heard similar arguments about black kids not being stimulated by staring at the back of mom's head from their towels), but don't know if this has really been proven. The issue has been identified, the next Brian Lara is running around our dusty streets somewhere. 

[gemmerbal]

Shebeen, bonus points if you can guess the sportsman I'm talking about.

[babse]

Shebeen, bonus points if you can guess the sportsman I'm talking about.

gibbs?

[gemmerbal]

I bow to your knowledge!

 

Whatta player...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqfjBKjO5A4

 

gibbs?

[Craai]

Shebeen as always I respect the fact that we might not quite agree on a particular point. All I can really draw on is my own observations and draw conclusions from that. 

 

When I think of probably the most talented sportsman I have seen ever produced in this country, he certainly does not come from a "traditional" background. Yes he went to Bishops and played provincial rugby and cricket and god knows what else, but he grew up playing the game in the streets. By the time he went to high school he was already playing sport beyond his age group. and let me tell you in the 90's school teams were not coached like nowadays, you simply had a teacher organising nets and transport to and from cricket matches. so no, on that basis, if we look at the stars produced from that era, I cannot agree with that sentiment. sadly i cannot speak for the hundreds of coloured and black cricketers, but I am sure there were many of them who were very talented and it was not because of their schooling.

 

(i apologise unreservedly for my lack of knowledge on the cricketers of the former South African Cricket Board)

 

I hear they have an excellent waterpolo program there as well