Tennis...

[Thor Buttox]

More factual than a peanut comment... but your bias cannot see through that.... sadly!!

 

The basic facts are that this was a professional umpire doing his job, he was appointed to umpire the match based on his experience and by USTA who out of all the umpires available he was deemed the most capable to do this job.

 

Further, this was one of the most significant matched of the tournament being the women's final and watched not only by millions of viewers around the world, but by critical sports journalists, commentators, USTA, every tennis authority as well as his fellow umpires and peers.

 

Any actions by himself can and will ultimately affect his lively hood as this is his job, so doing his job and being impartial in doing that I would think would be paramount not withstanding his many years of experience, professionalism and dedication to become one of the best umpires to be in a position to umpire this match.

 

His actions have been scrutinized post match by USTA as well as that of Serena and the outcome of which is that USTA handed a fine to Serena for her antics!

 

The only peanut comment is that of yours with regard to a tiny man supposedly throwing his weight around, which shows your bias.

 

Then again to further show your intolerance, in that if no one supports your view that they belong to the peanut gallery.

 

Your responses show that to undertake further discussion of this with you if futile with the juvenile and rather insulting comments thrown at others who also take you to task on your opinion.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis/incredible-truth-about-chair-umpire-in-serena-williams-controversy/news-story/d0411d6458db5fdbd74dfc58b0f5ecb8

 

Perhaps this is the real scandal.

[Vetplant]

More factual than a peanut comment... but your bias cannot see through that.... sadly!!

 

{SNIP}

 

Your responses show that to undertake further discussion of this with you if futile with the juvenile and rather insulting comments thrown at others who also take you to task on your opinion.

Well said Shaper.

 

Seems like Readsalot is only interested in arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

And just like that my Blocked list on this peanut gallery forum grows to a staggering 2 users.

[shaper]

https://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis/incredible-truth-about-chair-umpire-in-serena-williams-controversy/news-story/d0411d6458db5fdbd74dfc58b0f5ecb8

 

Perhaps this is the real scandal.

The scandal being the lack of pay for umpires or that WTA now want to undermine all that has been done to get women's tennis or a par with men's tennis by allowing coaching in grand slams with is not allowed in the men's game?

 

The first violation given to Williams was for coaching, which isn’t allowed during any men’s matches but is permitted on the women’s tour except in grand slam tournaments.

 

At least the article is factual and is what i said about peer review of the umpire "Many, Ings included, believe Ramos followed the rule book to the letter — and should be lauded for having the courage to call the violations as he saw them."

Edited September 10, 2018 by shaper

[Readsalot]

I totally agree with you.

 

Okay.

 

There are people like that who can behave poorly if a woman is involved because they treat them differently. But I have now seen Serena's example over and over and I don't see the harassment, though.

 

You don't, she does and others do.

 

Like I said above, the other umpire getting off his chair to coddle Kyrgios is sexist because he would never have done that to a woman (or maybe he would have, but that's a weasel thought) but that umpire's behaviour was contrary to the rules and/or ethics of the game.

 

Not sure what this is about, as I'm not a big Kyrgios fan.

 

I'll ask it another way: would you teach your kid to behave as Serena did, or rather to react to someone behaving in that way in a consistent logical way (as the umpire did) ? Which is more likely to result in personal growth?

 

Kidding, right? Serious question? Hmm? I'd teach them to stand up for themselves like Serena did if they perceive they are being unfairly discriminated against, to fight hard and never give up despite all the odds against them, and, that no matter how hard they work, people will always try to find a way to take it away from them because small, petty people exist everywhere and once you give them a bit of power they can't wait to use it. 

 

I'd also teach them that being fair means treating everyone the same, men and women, white and black, old and young - UNLIKE the umpire. You figure out the growth part.

 

Unless the ump was treating Osaka the same way (ie badly, as a woman) , or her (Osaka's) coach was also coaching and the ump ignored it, that isn't an -ism at all. And even if he did, that is bias, at best.

 

Ramos is being accused of treating women unfairly compared to men, not other women. This statement doesn't make sense to me.

 

PS: I can agree with James Woods for entirely different reasons.

 

I just threw up. 

 

I believe all of us are responsible for our own behaviour but that her behaviour wasn't bad because she was a woman, and not even in spite of her being a woman (which is as sexist), but because her behaviour was terrible, full stop.

 

This you know we agree on.

 

You could just as easily fall into a 'he was racist' trap because she is an African American - that is at least as valid.

 

No. See above for the ism feedback.

 

What we can do is have a discussion whether it warranted a game default - but that is a different discussion. As in Cornet's case, the rule can be sexist, and by resolving it the Tennis Assoc admitted as much. But unless the response to this situation is to change the rules to allow her (Serena) to behave that way because she is a woman, I submit that the umpire cannot have been sexist.

 

This is also where I lost you. Nobody said she should be allowed to behave that way. They said Ramos treated her unfairly because he was inconsistent, letting male players get away with it while penalising her.

 

 

 

 

[Gen]

This is also where I lost you. Nobody said she should be allowed to behave that way. They said Ramos treated her unfairly because he was inconsistent, letting male players get away with it while penalising her.

 

 

 

 

In all of those violations given was it 1st, 2nd or 3rd violation..

[Stretch]

Jeepers .. Clearly I missed some action at the tennis

[Readsalot]

In all of those violations given was it 1st, 2nd or 3rd violation..

Not a clue. Does it matter, you think?

[Gen]

Not a clue. Does it matter, you think?

It does.. because point and game penalties come after 2nd and 3rd violations... as per the rules.

 

 

You must remember that she didn't get a game penalty for having a go at the ref.. she received a game penalty because after her having a go at the ref for lot of games he eventually gave her a 3rd violation which resulted in a game penalty.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Gen

[Readsalot]

 

 

It does.. because point and game penalties come after 2nd and 3rd violations... as per the rules.

 

 

You must remember that she didn't get a game penalty for having a go at the ref.. she received a game penalty because after her having a go at the ref for lot of games he eventually gave her a 3rd violation which resulted in a game penalty.

Yebo. No problem with that. My problem with him is that if he is going to issue violations for verbal abuse, shouldn't he do it with the male players as well?

[Gen]

Yebo. No problem with that. My problem with him is that if he is going to issue violations for verbal abuse, shouldn't he do it with the male players as well?

I am not quite sure that he doesn't give violations to the men... he is known to be quite strict and applies the rules..

 

What they have done is selectively go find where he didn't but fail to mention when he has..

 

Murray, Nadal, Djokovic etc have all received violations from him... . perhaps the difference is also that when other players have received violations that they sorted themselves out and did not continue to do things that would result in further violations.?

Edited September 10, 2018 by Gen

[Readsalot]

 

 

I am not quite sure that he doesn't give violations to the men.

 

What they have done is selectively go find where he didn't but fail to mention when he has..

 

Murray, Nadal, Djokovic etc have all received violations from him... . perhaps the difference is also that when other players have received violations that they sorted themselves out and did not continue to do things that would result in further violations.?

Gen, this doesn't make sense. Either verbal abuse is a violation or it isn't. Otherwise it's just a tool for abuse by the umpires who can freely decide to punish some players on some days, arbitrarily and based on how they feel on that day about that player.

 

Shouldn't this be consistent? Why only apply this rule selectively? By not enforcing the rule consistently you are creating exactly the situation we saw on Saturday - frustration, anger, confusion and resentment.

 

That's either a bad system or a bad umpire - or both.

[Shebeen]

https://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis/incredible-truth-about-chair-umpire-in-serena-williams-controversy/news-story/d0411d6458db5fdbd74dfc58b0f5ecb8

 

Perhaps this is the real scandal.

BOOM, that's it.

 

I'm sorry but i have little to no sympathy for Serena here.

She thinks she's larger than the game.

She thinks she is more important than match officials.

Even trying to play the "I'm a mom card" to say she doesn't cheat.

 

BUT thanks to some russian hackers we know she is way worse than Froome or Wiggo

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2018/07/serena-williams-drug-testing-tues-theraputic-use-discrimination/75548/

 

Serena Williams' Therapeutic Use Exemptions (TUEs)

Date for use/Date given/Substance

*Oct 2010 - Mar 2011/23 Dec/Hydromorphone

*Dec 2010/23 Dec/Oxycodone

*Nov 27-Dec 1 2010/23 Dec/Methylprednisolone

*12-19 Mar 2014/13th Mar/Prednisone

*21-30 Mar 2014/2 Apr/Prednisone

*7-21 May 2014/8 May/Prednisone

*10-17 Nov 2014/3 Dec/Prednisone, Oxycodone

*5-10 June 2015/8 Jun/Prednisolone

Most of these TUEs were retroactive, meaning that they allow use of the banned substance prior to the granting of the TUE. In a few, the delay is just a day, while others are two weeks or more.

''That shouldn't be done," said McLaren. "You're not supposed to get retroactive TUEs unless it's an emergency. There could be some explanation, but somebody should look at it and see the explanation."

 

The poor Japanese lady with a Haitian dad who has lived in the states since age 3 is now almost an afterthought. Even though she bossed a game against a poor loser.

[Gen]

Gen, this doesn't make sense. Either verbal abuse is a violation or it isn't. Otherwise it's just a tool for abuse by the umpires who can freely decide to punish some players on some days, arbitrarily and based on how they feel on that day about that player.

 

Shouldn't this be consistent? Why only apply this rule selectively? By not enforcing the rule consistently you are creating exactly the situation we saw on Saturday - frustration, anger, confusion and resentment.

 

That's either a bad system or a bad umpire - or both.

They are actually arguing that he should've been more lenient with her..

 

What for ..she has a history of lashing out when she is losing.. she is a pro and knows he is stricter than most..she also knows the rules.. but her arrogance has let her get away with so much in that past..

 

 

And yes all officials should apply all the rules all the time..that i do agree with.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Gen

[Gen]

BOOM, that's it.

 

I'm sorry but i have little to no sympathy for Serena here.

She thinks she's larger than the game.

She thinks she is more important than match officials.

Even trying to play the "I'm a mom card" to say she doesn't cheat.

 

BUT thanks to some russian hackers we know she is way worse than Froome or Wiggo

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2018/07/serena-williams-drug-testing-tues-theraputic-use-discrimination/75548/

 

The poor Japanese lady with a Haitian dad who has lived in the states since age 3 is now almost an afterthought. Even though she bossed a game against a poor loser.

Have you read her explanations regarding all her TUEs?

 

 

Laughable.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Gen

[Readsalot]

 

 

They are actually arguing that he should've been more lenient with her..

 

What for ..she has a history of lashing out when she is losing.. she is a pro and knows he is stricter than most..she also knows the rules.. but her arrogance has let her get away with so much in that past..

 

 

And yes all officials should apply all the rules all the time..that i do agree with.

Those are two different arguments, though. I haven't seen any that said he should've been more lenient (maybe because I didn't look for it) just that a professional umpire should, at the very least, be consistent.

 

It was rather noticeable on my feeds how often women pointed out his inconsistent (and therefore unfair) handing out of violations for the same offence (see above), letting the men get away with breaking the rules; while how often the men got really cross (see above [emoji16]) because she should have just kept her mouth shut *like a good little girl* and followed the rules, then she wouldn't have gotten into trouble...

[Gen]

Those are two different arguments, though. I haven't seen any that said he should've been more lenient (maybe because I didn't look for it) just that a professional umpire should, at the very least, be consistent.

 

It was rather noticeable on my feeds how often women pointed out his inconsistent (and therefore unfair) handing out of violations for the same offence (see above), letting the men get away with breaking the rules; while how often the men got really cross (see above [emoji16]) because she should have just kept her mouth shut *like a good little girl* and followed the rules, then she wouldn't have gotten into trouble...

Some men could even argue that they are penalised by him more than other men..

 

The problem isn't sexism it is inconsistency.. and funny thing he is one of the more strict umps..