I-Link or Nokon

[Johan Bornman]

Johan' date=' its not a simple steel gear cable that Shimano make,its a stainless steel gear cable designed and made differently from all the copies on the market to work with Shimano components in conjunction with Shimano outer sis casing.On a similar basis Shimano spend millions of Dollars designing and perfecting their chainrings and cassettes to work 100% and offer the consumer the best shifting performance on the market.There are copies which you have your opinion  on but i can assure you that from our experience Shimano is the easiest to set up and offer the best allround value for money.

Johan, this is a website where all parties are members whom express there views in  a way which will entice more information to be sought by cyclists not only from your point of view, its an adult site so please refrain from posting childish remarks on it .

[/quote']

Steve, like you say, this is an adult site. So, don't SHOUT as you did in the other posts.

Also, you're welcome to your opinion, but then you should have the balls to stand behind it. Just like the tensiometer debate you ran away from, you are in the habit of dropping a bomb and then expecting us to accept your word.

 

Well, if it is not a steel cable, please explain what it is. In my view it is a 7-strand helical-wound stainless steel cable made just like all other helical-wound cables in the world, ranging from 3-strand to 1002 strand used in the marine and mining industries.

 

Please explain what makes your cable special.

 

All cables break eventually if subjected to working around radii below its working limit and so does Shimano cable. The trick is to design the device so that the cable doesn't jam but can be removed by the user. I'd hate to have to send my brifter in to a dealer who has to send it to the agent so that a broken cable can be removed.

 

Please understand me clearly. I'm asking for your view - that you gave us, I'm asking an engineering question: what makes a Shimano cable different from say a Campag or Nokon cable?

 

You also said it is made differently. Tell us a bit about that manufacuturing process.

 

Johan Bornman2007-12-31 11:40:33

[steven]

JOHAN,THANKS FOR YOUR RESPONSE AND AGAIN YOU INTIMATE THAT I SHOUT ,PUT ARTICLES IN AND THEN RUNAWAY.IN FACT I AM AWAY AND WILL BE BACK IN MY OFFICE WITHIN A FEW DAYS AND WILL POST AN EXACT REPLY TO YOU REGARDING SHIMANO CABLES.I DO NOT HAVE A PROPER INTERNET CONECTION AT THIS PRESENT MOMENT IN MOZAMBIQUE.RGDS SM

[Edition 507]

Steve,

If Shimano is so sensitive to cable quality then you need to do the following:

1. Ensure the LBS does not sell anything besides Shimano genuine cables because this is where the source of all your problem cables are coming from.

2. Print a disclaimer on all Shimano STI's warning the public of the warranty being voided if they use cables other than Shimano.

 

In my humble opinion, STI's wear out or get damaged primarily due to all the crud that gets stuck in the cable casing, compounded by lack of maintenance, particularly with offroad bikes.

 

Nokon and I-Link are not cheap generic Chinese knock-offs and are equal or even superior to Shimano cables. You are making huge generalizations when it comes to cables, confusing the knowledgeable and experienced racing cyclist fitting high tech after market equipment on his bike, with a fun rider who does not understand bike maintenance.

 

What do you say about cable casings? An inferior casing will cause more friction problems than a simple cable.

 

Happy shifting in 2008!

[steven]

Carbonboy, thanks for your response regarding inner stainless steel gear cable. It would not be policy for Shimano to print a warning stating that if non Shimano gear cable is used that it would create a warranty problem.Experience and reliabilty has shown us that by using a non branded inner and outer gear casing it could cause hard shifting and ultimatly premature wear of shifters. Sure that a lack of maintance also takes its toll, however when you work at the Cape Epic for 7 days and replace lots of inner and outer cables and casing en route only then does the reality of quality of Shimano come on strong.Shimano outercasing is make specificaly for Shimano where the compression of the outercasing is designed to work at its optimum. Many other copies etc are not produced as such which in turn could create bad shifting performance.

I will as soon as possible insert an article of Shimano inner and outercasings for your info once i have it on hand.

 

rgds sm 

 

 

[Racer X]

Look guys this is just screwed up, who cares what cabling one uses and what housing to go with it. I am happy with my I link stuff. Its bling and I like it, this just seems to ba pointless aregument. It all works.

[MAESTRO's]

Steven

So what's the story with so many of the latest 105 shifters breaking. Let me guess.....inferior Shimano cables!

If anything, one should question where Shimano cables are made. I can tell you for sure that Nokon is made in Germany and that Nokon is part of the Carl Stahl group. Now you go off and do some research into Carl Stahl cables. 

 

 

[Johan Bornman]

Carbonboy' date=' thanks for your response regarding inner stainless steel gear cable. It would not be policy for Shimano to print a warning stating that if non Shimano gear cable is used that it would create a warranty problem.Experience and reliabilty has shown us that by using a non branded inner and outer gear casing it could cause hard shifting and ultimatly premature wear of shifters. Sure that a lack of maintance also takes its toll, however when you work at the Cape Epic for 7 days and replace lots of inner and outer cables and casing en route only then does the reality of quality of Shimano come on strong.Shimano outercasing is make specificaly for Shimano where the compression of the outercasing is designed to work at its optimum. Many other copies etc are not produced as such which in turn could create bad shifting performance.

I will as soon as possible insert an article of Shimano inner and outercasings for your info once i have it on hand.

 

rgds sm 

 [/quote']

Steven, I think for your own protecton you should check what you write before hitting the Post Reply button.

 

I don't understand what you mean in that second sentence. I am sure you said earlier on that it would or might void the gaurantee and now you say something else?? What has branding got to do with it?

 

You seem to interchange "casing" for both the inner and outer component of a cable running in a housing.

 

I also don't know what the "reality of the quality of Shimano come on strong" means.

 

Actually, the next sentence is also mumbo-jumbo. What does "compression of the outercasing is designed to work at its optimum" mean? Outer brake or outer gear casing? The one can take compression, the other can't. Which is which?

 

You are guilty of perpretating FUD.

 

Other cables are not copies. Both the tight ribbon coil and steel wire helix outer cable were patented by entities other than Shimano and the patent has expired more than 50 years ago, hence many companies making both those types of cable.

 

And as luck may have it, I came across a faulty Shimano cable this weekend. During a class where I demonstrated the difference between the two types of cable, I handed out lengths of thoroughbred and brand new Shimano gear cable to my students and asked them to thread it. Once couldn't get it right and told me his outer cable was blocked. I double-checked and gues what? It is blocked. I've kept this little piece of cable because I want to disect it and take photos of the blockage with my macro camera. I invite you to be present for the disection so we can show the world what we find. I'll be doing this on Wednesday. You're welcome to attend.

 

Before you look for that cable article, don't forget that you also owe us an table of recommended spoke tensions for Shimano, DT and Mavic components.

 

Steve, this thread is taking a turn for the worse and you're not doing yourself any favours. Had you hired a PR specialist to put words in your mouth you would have said, right from the beginning: "There are many good quality brake and gear cables on the market. Shimano cable, like other Shimano products, rate right there with the very best and we like to think that our customers get some of the very best technology, manufacturing techniques and back-up that can be had, when they use Shimano cable. That's why we encourage Shimano component owners to use the real thing."

 

Instead, you shot your mouth off about endangering warrantees (South Africans use the term gaurantee), hinted that Shimano has the exclusive right to certain cable manufacturing and design techniques and had all sort of special James Bond technology that other cable manufacturers can only dream of. Everything that is not Shimano is a poor copy.

 

You also blustered and said Shimano invests "millions of dollars" in cable R&D. May I remind you that Shimano is a Japanese company and spends in Yen. No need to get clever with us.

 

Steven, I have nothing against Shimano cable or any other Shimano product for that matter. I happen to think it is right up there with the very best. But when you use mumbo-jumbo to instill fear in us, I will rise to the occasion.

 

Consumers are not stupid, as is evident from the negative reaction you got from your comments.

 

 

 

 

Johan Bornman2008-01-07 14:29:45

[GoLefty!!]

Steven, You make a great point about the quality of Shimano Cables then throw it away with ridiculous statements like loss of warranty due to use of non Shimano cables and housing. I'm sure the guys back at Shimano Europe will like to know about this too since I've had numerous discussions with them about cabling for Shimano gears systems.

 

Instead of spreading fear you'd do well to talk about the following:

 

Shimano Outer Housing using a different braid to industry generic outer housing, hence it is stiffer and does not like tight radii. It is also has a teflon liner which is coated with a silicone Kluber grease to keep the friction low and keep moisture away from the cable.

 

You may eve  do better by talking about how Genuine SHimano Cable Housing end caps fit the housing better (more snuggly) and that they have two o-rings in which help to seal the inner cable from the dirt and also wipes the cable clean so that dirt doe snot enter the outer housing and contaminate the grease.

 

You see these are the features that Hr Peiffer and Hr Rodenbusch mentioned when I asked for advise on cable set up for muddy conditions. I have used Shimano SP41 outer and Genuine Shimano End caps ever since and my shifting has never been better.

 

You would also do vry well in explaining that the generic cables and housing fitted to SHimano Groupsets by the Bike Manufacturers is often the cheap, non teflon coated, non greased inner and outer and that the inner cable heads of these are not stamped to as precise dimentions as the Genuine Shimano Cables, hence the genuine part fits better, can rotate in the shifter's socket to accomodate the cable run and fascilitate good fitting and working.

 

Campagnolo also have a similar quality control system for their cables.

 

 

Folks, I have never had a generic cable set that worked well for more than a few rides. I've tried NOKON and removed it after day 1 of the 2005 Cape Epic. It was full of dirt and water. At SANI2C in 2006 where it was wetter and dirtier my Shimano SP41 housing and Shimano XTR cables worked throughout the event. Ok the cassette did get gummed up to the point where shifting was pointless but the cables still functioned.

 

If you are going to use the pimpy linked typed cable housing then use the Shimano (on Shimano) or Campagnolo (on Campy) inner cable to save you some hassle.

 

 

Just  my 2p and experience worth. use it don't use it

[GoLefty!!]

PS< Steven, while you're at it, please have a relook at Shimano XTR pricing. Your pricing is way to high in relation to other Shimano distributors.

 

XTR more expensive than SRAM X.0....??

 

 

[steven]

Thanks for your input and experience with Shimano cables. Sometimes i do get carried away and screw up now and again however nobody is perfect.

 

rgds sm

[Pantani]

 

Thanks for your input and experience with Shimano cables. Sometimes i do get carried away and screw up now and again however nobody is perfect.

 

rgds sm

 

No sweat my china, I understand... Now can you organise me a Gold Shimano Dura Ace grouppo??? Sponsored... I'll ride it all over, before you know it you will be inundated with orders for the grouppo...

 

[Jason]

1 - 0 to Bornman and we only 3 minutes in to the second half. The Bornman defence is holding Steven off but will Steven strike back? OH NO! 2 - 0! Bornman seals it for sure!! Steven with a shot! but what a save from Bornman, Bornman on the counter now and OH! WHAT A FANTASTIC GOAL!!! LA DUUUUUUUUUMA!!!!!!!!!!!! From 45 yards out, Bornman catches Steven off his line and what a lob!!! 3 - 0!!!!

Commentating courtesy from Supersport 3

[Willehond]

Man, I just stumbled on this thread cause I had no idea what it was about and had some time on my hand, but thanks for the entertainment.  Tears streaming from my eyes (laughter, not pain!)

 

After this thread though I am seriously tempted to go for Campag (when I can afford it).  Now if they can just get a reliable local agent who can sell it at a competitive price....  Hmmm, where is that Chris Willemse thread again?

[Pantani]

 

OH! WHAT A FANTASTIC GOAL!!! LA DUUUUUUUUUMA!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Imagine Martin Tyler commentating on the FA Cup final breaking out LLLLAAAAADDDDUUUUUMMMMAAAA!!!!

 

hillarious!

 

[ewep]

Steven, as someone has mentioned before, maybe go to the trouble of getting 95% of your Accredited Dealers to sell "certified real" Shimano cables, housings and endcaps.  I have bought cables from a few places and so far only 1 LBS gave me the real thing. 

 

Question, does the above mean that I have to sue them if something goes wrong with my STi?

 

[AndreZA]

Steven' date=' as someone has mentioned before, maybe go to the trouble of getting 95% of your Accredited Dealers to sell "certified real" Shimano cables, housings and endcaps.  I have bought cables from a few places and so far only 1 LBS gave me the real thing. 

Question, does the above mean that I have to sue them if something goes wrong with my STi?
[/quote']

 

They normally sell Giant make and will tell you "it's the same thing". I raplaced my Jagwires with Shimano outers and XTR cables and it's a world of difference.