Rugby...

[Mntboy]

PS It's not about the money. [emoji1476]

Yes it is. A fair number of the AB'S are making money off of being an AB BUT in general because the stature that the jersey holds in the NZLD mindset it makes it harder to accept a foreign offer but if the French or English club flashes enough money around they'll probably get the player they are after. The player still needs to pay the bills, just take a look at SBW's career if you don't agree.

 

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['Dale]

Yes it is. A fair number of the AB'S are making money off of being an AB BUT in general because the stature that the jersey holds in the NZLD mindset it makes it harder to accept a foreign offer but if the French or English club flashes enough money around they'll probably get the player they are after. The player still needs to pay the bills, just take a look at SBW's career if you don't agree.

 

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Clarification:

The prevailing culture that is fostered within Kiwi rugby renders money less valuable than the pride of wearing the black jersey.

 

I work with rugby players and pride and deep team spirit gives the team 10 points on the board before kick-off.

[Mntboy]

 

 

Clarification:

The prevailing culture that is fostered within Kiwi rugby renders money less valuable than the pride of wearing the black jersey.

 

I work with rugby players and pride and deep team spirit gives the team 10 points on the board before kick-off.

Not disagreeing with you on the value that the Kiwis hold the AB Jersey in, 'Dale.

 

What I am saying is that the belief that money doesn't play a role farcical. Can you really say that SBW'S choice to go back to league post RWC11 wasn't influenced by money? The thing that they have done well though is to limit such examples. However these athletes are still looking to make themselves financially secure and for most the status of being an AB is what generates that financial security which is another reason the big talents stay in NZld until the end of their international career. Then they go looking for money elsewhere. The obvious exception to this is guys like McAllister and Donald who left early because they knew that they were going to be on the periphery of the AB'S for much of their career and left to earn more as a class act domestically than get the occasional International cap. And they only did so post becoming an AB.

 

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[Stretch]

Kiwis still earn more per game than SA team... That's excluding their provincial contracts

[Bloukrans]

Kiwis still earn more and score more per game than SA team... That's excluding their provincial contracts

Fixed it

 

Charles Pitua was an interesting case. Was in top form when he decided to go abroad. Also Rene Ranger, who is now back bit outside the AB squad.

 

If we do not have scores of players leaving, would we have beaten the AB's? Don't think so, but more competitive.

 

Still think we are miles behind with outdated coaching, poor structures from school boy level, provincial bias, boardroom dramas, quotas, and the inability to evolve with the game.

[Shebeen]

there's enough AB's playing overseas that they even have a website

http://allblacksoverseas.com/home/welcome-to-allblacks-overseas

 

Here's their Expat 23 - https://www.rugbypass.com/news/kiwis-abroad-best-new-zealand-squad-playing-europe/

 

currently the Bok expat 23 would kill them!

[Stretch]

In terms of structures...Was just reading an article how rugby is being impacted in the southern hemisphere by lucrative contracts in the Northern hemisphere.

[mazambaan]

Let's not forget the apparent mess that is rugby player contracts that could be another factor hobbling SA rugby.  NZ have a centralised contract system; SA is still provincial.

['Dale]

'The streaker made more metres than the Springboks combined'

 

Tweetiebird

 

????

['Dale]

Let's not forget the apparent mess that is rugby player contracts that could be another factor hobbling SA rugby. NZ have a centralised contract system; SA is still provincial.

Yes ????????‍♂️

['Dale]

... and local provincial coaches don't align with a playing philosophy that best reflects Springbok rugby

 

#silo_thinking

 

Alignment is evident in Kiwi franchises

Edited September 21, 2017 by 'Dale

[scotty]

Rumor has it the SA rugby officials have contacted a certain Norwegian policeman to assist them with tackling training. 

[Bloukrans]

Rumor has it the SA rugby officials have contacted a certain Norwegian policeman to assist them with tackling training. 

SARU will do better with Die Muishond

[WhuYu]

Let's not forget the apparent mess that is rugby player contracts that could be another factor hobbling SA rugby.  NZ have a centralised contract system; SA is still provincial.

Let us also not forget, ito Rugby policy (and other sports)..............there is the AA factor...............so not the best 15 are selected. On this basis alone we already on the back foot............example: how does Skosan or Rhule get selected before Ruan Combrinck?..........rest me case.

Edited September 21, 2017 by WhuYu

[MTBeer]

Let us also not forget, ito Rugby policy (and other sports)..............there is the AA factor...............so not the best 15 are selected. On this basis alone we already on the back foot............example: how does Skosan or Rhule get selected before Ruan Combrinck?..........rest me case.

while I agree that Skosaan and especially Rhule (worst defensive player in Super rugby according to stats) are kaak, wasn't Combrink injured?

[mazambaan]

Hmm, let's waste a bit of time with a list - why is NZ better at rugger than SA?

 

Admin; central contracts, internal politics, external interference in coach and player selection as well as age group sport.

 

Skills. Our players and coaches are just not as well (cleverly & skillfully) trained or well educated as NZ's; imho. And we don't seem to care or improve.

 

Size.  I suspect the Boks are smaller than the AB's. I saw somewhere the scrum is 20kg lighter (906 AB's vs 886 Boks). Interesting to see overall. Following the US NFL logic skills can be taught; speed and size cannot.  Generally a good big un will beat a good little un.

 

Succession planning. SA rugby succession planning for both players and coaches is poor. (look how long it took for AC to be appointed) Again, imho.

 

Culture.  SA's rugby culture is weakening; mainly due to the perception of injury, emigration and poor results; once again imho. The number of SA kids growing up with a rugby ball in hand is reducing and less than NZ's.

 

The lure of overseas cash. NZ's second rate over the hillers slip overseas.  SA the opposite for many reasons (exchange rate, living conditions, salary etc) and SA Rugby doesn't really care or deal with it sensibly (Frans Steyn  ).

 

Poaching. Contentious but SA has poached a few (Beast; Rhule  ??) but there isn't the organised school level conveyor belt from the PI breeding ground of perfect players that NZ has.

 

I think we do well to compete as we do.