Prof Tim Noakes' U-turn on Carbohydrates

[awesme]

Does anyone know if there is a recording of Prof Tim Noakes talking about his thesis... if it is that, basically whatever he said on Carte Blance?

 

I missed the episode and thing it might be interesting to view.

 

or is there a good read/paper about his views.

 

G

[Topwine]

Does anyone know if there is a recording of Prof Tim Noakes talking about his thesis... if it is that, basically whatever he said on Carte Blance?

 

I missed the episode and thing it might be interesting to view.

 

or is there a good read/paper about his views.

 

G

 

Have you tried Google ? ... Seek and thou shall find .

[HappyMartin]

 

 

Like yourself has said, it's all relative. A big improvement from a 4h argus will be the same as a small improvement in a sub 3 h argus. The performance increases, if any, will obviously be lower at the top of the field, for obvious reasons. but a 1 or 2 % difference there could mean a lot ito position results. If you are so good as you obviously think you are, are you then not interested in ANY possible advantage ?

 

I have read all I wrote Topwine and can not see anything I wrote that could give the idea that I think I am a good rider. I know exactly how good I am and it is in fact pretty ordinary. I am trying to get a feel for the type of improvements that a good fun rider would expect to see. Well what I would call a decent fun rider.

 

There is absolutely no need to start being rude. Merely give an answer to the question if you have one.

[HappyMartin]

 

 

I think that you may need a controlled study to try to prove a 'cause and effect' theory for this diet. The problem is that most folk who start following a strict diet also tend to get more serious about their training, sleeping, etc, so all those factors together are affecting their race times. Also, many people loose weight on the diet, and we all know about power to weight ratio.

 

My personal experience is that this diet allows me to train and race harder and for longer without bonking, also recovery times are significantly better, so training is better and easier. In other words, it's not the diet that makes me faster, but it's an enabler to better training which makes me faster.

 

Last 2 Argus times were 3:10, but looking at current performance I reckon I'll be 15 -20 min faster this year ... not exactly the 2:40 racing snake you were asking about, but gives you an idea.

 

Thank you. You are exactly the type of rider I was wondering about. Your Argus times are what I would consider very respectable.

 

It will be very interesting to see how you go at the Argus. If you have improved your ability to recover and then can train harder that would indeed be a major benefit. Providing that you take advantage of the ability to train extra of course. Power to weight ratio of course goes without saying.

 

Been years since I last did an Argus and I didn't get close to 3 hours, just for the record

[nochain]

Yes I am aware people have improved times. But what times? I mean no disrespect but I want to have some idea of what type of riders you are. As an extreme example if you are doing the Argus in over 4 hours and now you can do it on 3:40 then I am not so interested. Someone who is doing the 94 in under 2:40 and has now improved their time on this diet and I am interested.

 

I know that is not the whole story but I think you know what I mean.

I am on the Paleo diet for athletes by Joe Friel.Pretty much the same mostly high protein/fat and low carbs.I have not had carbs in any form other veggies and fruit for 2 weeks now.I do however drink my normal sportsdrink on the bike and after as prescribed by J Friels book.

Feeling very good on the bike at the moment...can ride up to 4hours hard tempo on 1 bottle carbs and some nuts.

Have also started doing intervals and feel strong at the moment but it is early still.Will start to race seriously in about 2 weeks so will let you know.I do mtb racing and road competitively in die subvets lic bunch here in Gauteng.

At the moment I am leaner than I have ever been this time of the year.Doing a 200km ride tomorrow so will see how that feels,Had Some Fish and sweet patato for dinner.

Will keep you guys posted on the form and racing results.

[An3]

I am a type 1 diabetic. (Previously not well controlled)

I've been sick since September. Landed up in hospital with pneumonia and just didn't recover since. I've been on 2 courses of antibiotics per month and lots of cortisone.

My weight ballooned to a very unhealthy 112 kg.

The last MTB races (Trailseeker) were very challenging. I just could not control my bloodsugar. I had to consume lots and lots of carbs to avoid a very low bloodsugar.

I was very weak and my times reflect this. I was too sick to participate in the 94.7:(

 

I started a high fat, moderate protein, low carb diet since 1 December 2012.

The first 2 weeks were difficult to adjust to my new eating plan (keto-adapt). My insulin had to be adjusted every day. I started cycling slowly (short duration and low intensity).

The duration of my rides were increased steadily to +_ 2 hrs / day.

 

 

The result after one month:

 

Cycling: I've completed a 4 hour mtb ride yesterday at a moderate pace. During my ride I've only consumed Hammer Endurolytes powder in my bottle and a little bit of salt in my CamelBak. (1/4 teespoon natural seasalt). The Endurolytes contains all the important minerals with almost no taste. Sodium Management is very important on this diet. Only after 3 hours my bloodsugar dropped to 3.3 and I've consumed 5 Super C's (15g Carbs) to lift the bloodsugar. Safari has a "Nut, seed & cranberry" trail mix in 30g packets. (Box of 6) Each serving contains 10g Carbs, 5.8g Protein and 6.8g Fat. I bought a box yesterday - this will be my new on the bike snack on long rides. (3 Hours +)

 

Results after one month:

 

Health:

I've lost 5.2 kg in December. I did not touch any of the Christmas goodies and followed my eating plan very strictly. My daily insulin dose was significantly reduced.

Diabetes control - improved

Asthma - improved

Immune system - improved

General - I still battle with autonomic neuropathy (long-term diabetic complications) but I am sure the improved blood sugar control will at least stabilize the symptoms.

 

I will post an update in a months' time.

The plan is not to participate in the upcoming road races and to first establish a proper base.

[Topwine]

I am a type 1 diabetic. (Previously not well controlled)

I've been sick since September. Landed up in hospital with pneumonia and just didn't recover since. I've been on 2 courses of antibiotics per month and lots of cortisone.

My weight ballooned to a very unhealthy 112 kg.

The last MTB races (Trailseeker) were very challenging. I just could not control my bloodsugar. I had to consume lots and lots of carbs to avoid a very low bloodsugar.

I was very weak and my times reflect this. I was too sick to participate in the 94.7:(

 

I started a high fat, moderate protein, low carb diet since 1 December 2012.

The first 2 weeks were difficult to adjust to my new eating plan (keto-adapt). My insulin had to be adjusted every day. I started cycling slowly (short duration and low intensity).

The duration of my rides were increased steadily to +_ 2 hrs / day.

 

 

The result after one month:

 

Cycling: I've completed a 4 hour mtb ride yesterday at a moderate pace. During my ride I've only consumed Hammer Endurolytes powder in my bottle and a little bit of salt in my CamelBak. (1/4 teespoon natural seasalt). The Endurolytes contains all the important minerals with almost no taste. Sodium Management is very important on this diet. Only after 3 hours my bloodsugar dropped to 3.3 and I've consumed 5 Super C's (15g Carbs) to lift the bloodsugar. Safari has a "Nut, seed & cranberry" trail mix in 30g packets. (Box of 6) Each serving contains 10g Carbs, 5.8g Protein and 6.8g Fat. I bought a box yesterday - this will be my new on the bike snack on long rides. (3 Hours +)

 

Results after one month:

 

Health:

I've lost 5.2 kg in December. I did not touch any of the Christmas goodies and followed my eating plan very strictly. My daily insulin dose was significantly reduced.

Diabetes control - improved

Asthma - improved

Immune system - improved

General - I still battle with autonomic neuropathy (long-term diabetic complications) but I am sure the improved blood sugar control will at least stabilize the symptoms.

 

I will post an update in a months' time.

The plan is not to participate in the upcoming road races and to first establish a proper base.

 

Hi

 

It all sounds very good. If you are in true ketosis and are producing enough ketones in your blood, then it's been proven to improved your insulin sensitivity and could be the reason why your BG levels drop so much during exercise which enhances insulin sensitivity even more. All good since your goal probably is to reduce your daily insulin injections also.

 

When exercising in my ketogenic state my BG often gets to 3.4 without any adverse effects, but then I am not Type 1 and my body auto adjusts insulin levels lower, and yours obviously not able to.

[flymango]

I am a type 1 diabetic. (Previously not well controlled)

I've been sick since September. Landed up in hospital with pneumonia and just didn't recover since. I've been on 2 courses of antibiotics per month and lots of cortisone.

My weight ballooned to a very unhealthy 112 kg.

The last MTB races (Trailseeker) were very challenging. I just could not control my bloodsugar. I had to consume lots and lots of carbs to avoid a very low bloodsugar.

I was very weak and my times reflect this. I was too sick to participate in the 94.7:(

 

I started a high fat, moderate protein, low carb diet since 1 December 2012.

The first 2 weeks were difficult to adjust to my new eating plan (keto-adapt). My insulin had to be adjusted every day. I started cycling slowly (short duration and low intensity).

The duration of my rides were increased steadily to +_ 2 hrs / day.

 

 

The result after one month:

 

Cycling: I've completed a 4 hour mtb ride yesterday at a moderate pace. During my ride I've only consumed Hammer Endurolytes powder in my bottle and a little bit of salt in my CamelBak. (1/4 teespoon natural seasalt). The Endurolytes contains all the important minerals with almost no taste. Sodium Management is very important on this diet. Only after 3 hours my bloodsugar dropped to 3.3 and I've consumed 5 Super C's (15g Carbs) to lift the bloodsugar. Safari has a "Nut, seed & cranberry" trail mix in 30g packets. (Box of 6) Each serving contains 10g Carbs, 5.8g Protein and 6.8g Fat. I bought a box yesterday - this will be my new on the bike snack on long rides. (3 Hours +)

 

Results after one month:

 

Health:

I've lost 5.2 kg in December. I did not touch any of the Christmas goodies and followed my eating plan very strictly. My daily insulin dose was significantly reduced.

Diabetes control - improved

Asthma - improved

Immune system - improved

General - I still battle with autonomic neuropathy (long-term diabetic complications) but I am sure the improved blood sugar control will at least stabilize the symptoms.

 

I will post an update in a months' time.

The plan is not to participate in the upcoming road races and to first establish a proper base.

 

I think I've asked you before: are you on basal bolus or insulin pump? The presence of insulin I understand is one of the main inhibitors of keto-adaption, which is a catch-22 for a diabetic on basal bolus. I can understand going for keto-adaption with an insulin pump, but how to do it on basal bolus? My specialist also suggested early December that I reduce my carb intake and reduce my basal insulin as an experiment to reduce weight and improve control. So I've been very disciplined since the second week in December with very low carb intake, but I've really struggled with low energy levels on the bike and hypo's at night (requiring carb intake and preventing keto-adaption).

[Topwine]

My specialist also suggested early December that I reduce my carb intake and reduce my basal insulin as an experiment to reduce weight and improve control. So I've been very disciplined since the second week in December with very low carb intake, but I've really struggled with low energy levels on the bike and hypo's at night (requiring carb intake and preventing keto-adaption).

 

Just interested. How long are you on this LC diet and how low are your carbs per day. do you calculate very strict as you say ? All the stuff I have read so far on Type 1 's (my son is 1 too) seems to indicate that if your carbs are low enough and you are fully adapted, then your insulin requirements go way down ( up to 90% less) and Hypo's seems to be a very rare occurance then as well. Have you read Dr Bernstein's book ?

[An3]

I

I think I've asked you before: are you on basal bolus or insulin pump? The presence of insulin I understand is one of the main inhibitors of keto-adaption, which is a catch-22 for a diabetic on basal bolus. I can understand going for keto-adaption with an insulin pump, but how to do it on basal bolus? My specialist also suggested early December that I reduce my carb intake and reduce my basal insulin as an experiment to reduce weight and improve control. So I've been very disciplined since the second week in December with very low carb intake, but I've really struggled with low energy levels on the bike and hypo's at night (requiring carb intake and preventing keto-adaption).

 

I am on the pump but I started a "pump holiday" in December. (Want to continue holiday for another 3 months)

Normally NovoRapid in pump.

Now on NovaRapid and Lantus

 

Basal Rate on pump was on 32.3

Started Lantus on 35 and slowly reduced it to 25.

 

Bolus: On pump (and high carb) totals were +- 60 units / day. Now I only need +- 10 units per day. e.g 3 - 4 units to cover my breakfast of either eggs + olive oil or protein / coconut milk shake.

 

I could not find a lot of info on the net regarding T1 Diabetics and ketogenic diets - I've read a lot of books Dr Bernstein, The Art and Science of low carb living and Low carb performance but nowhere is there a good guide on adjusting your insulin. The CDE does not support this diet.

 

My advice: (Your own risk if you follow as I am not a Dr)

Too much insulin is bad - it blocks the process of burning fat so you want to use as little as possible (but you want to maintain blood glucose levels of between 5 and 9.)

Limit your carbs to 20g / day.

Try and eat nil carbs for dinner. (sald with meat and olive oil) If your wake-up bg is high, you need more basal.

Post meal highs = more bolus

 

Test, test, test - especially during your rides. (I go through 5 boxes of strips / month)

Keep those mini Super C packets available at all times BUT do not overreact. Your body will metabolize fat and release a whole lot of hormones if you go into a hypo.

 

If you feel a hypo coming on - wait and test + retest. I used to get nervous and ate a lot of carbs when I felt a hypo - only to cause a hyper. Now I wait - normally I recover automatically even from 4.0. BUT if you go below 3.5 - eat 5 Super C's and reduce tomorrow's insulin.

 

Only adjust your insulin every two days to give your body a change to adapt.

and make small changes. Do not go from 35 basal to 25 in one day.

 

Cycling: Keep your intensity low. (I've activated a heart rate alarm @ 70% of max) - I actually stop and wait to recover. This is a frustrating process but it is achievable.

 

Keep a log. Spreadsheet works fine

Eat the same things @ the same time for few weeks to see patterns.

 

 

Email me your log and I will gladly assist.

[An3]

I think I've asked you before: are you on basal bolus or insulin pump? The presence of insulin I understand is one of the main inhibitors of keto-adaption, which is a catch-22 for a diabetic on basal bolus. I can understand going for keto-adaption with an insulin pump, but how to do it on basal bolus? My specialist also suggested early December that I reduce my carb intake and reduce my basal insulin as an experiment to reduce weight and improve control. So I've been very disciplined since the second week in December with very low carb intake, but I've really struggled with low energy levels on the bike and hypo's at night (requiring carb intake and preventing keto-adaption).

 

Look at your Mineral intake, especially salt, zinc and Magnesium (SlowMag) to help with the weakness on the bike

Avoid iron in multivitamins unless you have a problem.

Edited January 1, 2013 by An3

[flymango]

Just interested. How long are you on this LC diet and how low are your carbs per day. do you calculate very strict as you say ? All the stuff I have read so far on Type 1 's (my son is 1 too) seems to indicate that if your carbs are low enough and you are fully adapted, then your insulin requirements go way down ( up to 90% less) and Hypo's seems to be a very rare occurance then as well. Have you read Dr Bernstein's book ?

I guess word choice is important here. Let's just say that since early December I've been on a low carb diet. "Strict" would imply meal planning and calorie counting, which I'm not doing. I've merely cut out all "obvious" carbs like cereals, all wheat-based foods, rice, potatoes - although even doing that has been pretty tough. My bolus requirements have certainly dropped significantly (obviously, as one mainly injects to cover for carbs). I've also reduced my basal from 32 to 26. I suspect the hypos could be that the 6 - 8 units of bolus are just too much for the meal content (depending on meal type and content, I was usually injecting anything between 10 - 14 units of Humalog). I'm using even less bolus now (4 - 6), so it's a case of trial and error. I did research Dr Bernstein on the web, but haven't yet purchased his book. I did purchase Volek & Phinney's "Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance" though, which was very enlightening. Admittedly I haven't cut out the wine and champers yet , so obviously this will have to fall away once we return from holiday.

[An3]

I guess word choice is important here. Let's just say that since early December I've been on a low carb diet. "Strict" would imply meal planning and calorie counting, which I'm not doing. I've merely cut out all "obvious" carbs like cereals, all wheat-based foods, rice, potatoes - although even doing that has been pretty tough. My bolus requirements have certainly dropped significantly (obviously, as one mainly injects to cover for carbs). I've also reduced my basal from 32 to 26. I suspect the hypos could be that the 6 - 8 units of bolus are just too much for the meal content (depending on meal type and content, I was usually injecting anything between 10 - 14 units of Humalog). I'm using even less bolus now (4 - 6), so it's a case of trial and error. I did research Dr Bernstein on the web, but haven't yet purchased his book. I did purchase Volek & Phinney's "Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance" though, which was very enlightening. Admittedly I haven't cut out the wine and champers yet , so obviously this will have to fall away once we return from holiday.

 

Beware of the hidden carbs. I've had marinated ribs which elevated my BG significantly. Read the labels.

I do not think that a glass of red wine is going to hurt

[Topwine]

I guess word choice is important here. Let's just say that since early December I've been on a low carb diet. "Strict" would imply meal planning and calorie counting, which I'm not doing. I've merely cut out all "obvious" carbs like cereals, all wheat-based foods, rice, potatoes - although even doing that has been pretty tough. My bolus requirements have certainly dropped significantly (obviously, as one mainly injects to cover for carbs). I've also reduced my basal from 32 to 26. I suspect the hypos could be that the 6 - 8 units of bolus are just too much for the meal content (depending on meal type and content, I was usually injecting anything between 10 - 14 units of Humalog). I'm using even less bolus now (4 - 6), so it's a case of trial and error. I did research Dr Bernstein on the web, but haven't yet purchased his book. I did purchase Volek & Phinney's "Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance" though, which was very enlightening. Admittedly I haven't cut out the wine and champers yet , so obviously this will have to fall away once we return from holiday.

 

Yes, I am certainly not judging, just from my own experience, if you are not really strict by counting , planning and possibly weighing some times, one can easily misjudge the amount of carbs you consume per day. also knowledge about food contents become very important as well as studying the food labels carefully and understanding what all the terms on there actually mean.

 

I have a very physically active friend who is Type 1 and he has been able to improve control his BG control from good to excellent on this LC diet. His HbA1c was at or below 5% at last check ! He also reported much more consistent energy levels with very few Hypo's, if any. Insulin way down as well.

[andydude]

Two interesting articles:

 

(1) Science verifies the best weight-loss diet - http://discovermagazine.com/2013/jan-feb/95-science-verifies-the-best-weight-loss-diet

 

(2) Why calorie counts are wrong: Cooked foods provide a lot more energy http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/?p=623

[Topwine]

Two interesting articles:

 

(1) Science verifies the best weight-loss diet - http://discovermagaz...eight-loss-diet

 

(2) Why calorie counts are wrong: Cooked foods provide a lot more energy http://blogs.discove...com/crux/?p=623

 

Discover magazine article requires subscription. did you read it ?