martelpypie Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 After reading all of this - My question is: where is XC going to end up? A spectacular sport with very few riders? or are you of the impression that everybody is going to be doing it for the love of the sport and not worry about a few cracked frames and broken bones, due to the wrong equipment used on these courses? At the end of the day it cost thousands to organize an event for the locals, and money has to be generated to cover the expenses. That's why marathons are successful - its not the few elite pro's that keep the events going, its the masses. AS it stands now, CSA does not have money to subsidize these races already.. my 2c looking at the future...................
Eldron Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 After reading all of this - My question is: where is XC going to end up? A spectacular sport with very few riders? or are you of the impression that everybody is going to be doing it for the love of the sport and not worry about a few cracked frames and broken bones, due to the wrong equipment used on these courses? At the end of the day it cost thousands to organize an event for the locals, and money has to be generated to cover the expenses. That's why marathons are successful - its not the few elite pro's that keep the events going, its the masses. AS it stands now, CSA does not have money to subsidize these races already.. my 2c looking at the future................... I think XCO is in a great growth spate at the moment - in 2010 I did the MTN XCO series and each cat had a handful of riders - I think subvet topped the entry list with ~15 riders per cat. Nowadays we have the Engnet Series, XCOSA series, Thaba with a new XC course, Rietvlei constantly working on theirs - great to see some XCO revival! In terms of technical - PMB is FAR more technical than any of the provincial courses. The average course is doable by the intermediate rider. Sure the experiences guys will be a lot faster but the courses are safe (ie: technically challenging not life threatening). I think XCO is growing nicely - without CSA - which is even better!
Hairy Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 I'll gladly get off the fence to come and swing a spade as well.When is the next weekend build day on the cards? Helping out will also give me an insight into trailbuilding, and the type of thinking that goes on behind the scene. That XC track at Chrysallis Academy in 2003(or 2004, can't remember) is where I learned to suffer. No matter how wet and muddy, you kept on through the pain. Yo ... this was the top / start of first of the three drops at the academy ride
scotty Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 And you already have my pink blouse but looks like I better come get it back Nah it's mine still, took me a while to nail, master, ride Rietvlei's green route and that's the easiest
Hairy Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 The old 24hrs of wiesenhof bomb hole... How to ride the bomb hole and how not to ride the bomb hole
nigelhicks Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Thoughts From the World Cup DH Course Designer .... Fine you will all probably say that im shouting from the other side of the fence here ... but in actual fact Nick and I have to be in constant contact with the UCI technical delegates and therefore get lots of input from both of them regarding the courses we have built in PMB. Ok there are a number of factors that we need to look at here. But before we do we need to understand the concept of XCO racing. The UCI indicate that XCO courses need to be between 4 and 6km in length and be in the shape of a cloverleaf and consist of "a variety of terrain such as road sections, forest tracks, fields, and earth or gravel paths, and include significant amounts of climbing and descending." Technical obstacles are needed in such events as the race is supposed to test both physical and technical ability. The XCO has always been raced (since i started racing in 1993) on a short technical track that incorporates rocks, roots, dropoffs, climbs, switchbacks and singletrack. Ok so lets get started:1. 99.9% of mountain bikers Worldwide will never get to race a World Cup as we are not of the caliber to do so. What this means is that a track built to world cup specification is often outside of the riding capabilities of the ordinary rider. The track in PMB is an example of this where "Shakas Playground" and the "Treehouse" rock garden are very difficult to ride. However these sorts of obstacles are not new on XCO courses ... the Treehouse is actually modeled on a large NATURAL rock garden that forms part of the world cup XCO track in Mont St Anne Canada (pic attached) ... In PMB we do not have nice natural rock sections to work with and therefore have to build our own and they need to be built so as to challenge the best of the best.It is due to their extreme nature that alternate "B" Lines need to be provided as stipulated by the UCI. 2. The largest WORLDWIDE sales of marathon style bikes are in South Africa where we host the largest number of marathon and stage-races worldwide.It appears that in South Africa, MTB (marathon and stage racing) has rapidly become the new golf with lots of riders buying top of the range 50k+ bikes to go out and ride on a sat and sun on a district road. Now before you all pulverise me and say that "not everyone is a crazy downhiller" let me point out that 15 years ago there were NO marathons or stage races ... If you rode MTB you rode the XCO lap races and the odd 30 or 40km classic of which there were very few. These were generally very technical short races which were either preceded or followed by a downhill race that everyone also entered.It was only in around 2005 with the advent of stage racing and longer classics that MTB took off to where it is today. The number of rider increased incrementally, however this would have an effect on the nature of the tracks as the tight tech singletrack trails could no longer cope with rider number and were superseded by longer more endurance based events on less technical terrain.What im trying to say here is that although we are so focused on marathon and stage here in SA, XCO has and will always be there as a small niche discipline at the "pinnacle" of hardcore "short" cross country racing where the top boys are pitted against technical tracks as well as endurance. 3. XCO tracks need to be spectator friendly and have the ability to attract an audience.This is vitally important for a World Cup as the events need to draw spectator numbers for them to be viable. A prime example is that of 4 Cross which was removed from the World Cup programme this year as it was not getting the spectator and viewership targets that were initially set for it. The fact that XCO is an olympic sport should mean that this discipline would attract more spectators than the DH event - however, at every double event (Such as PMB) the crowds come out in their droves for the DH (even though our entire DH fraternity in the entire country cant be more than 2000 racers - a number which is dawfed at a local classic event) rather than the XC. WHY? because the DH is exciting and people like to see riders at the top of their game riding stuff that the public wouldnt dream of doing. XCO therefore followed this trend once TV coverage became common place so as to keep it interesting for the viewers. SO in conclusion ... the track at PMB is NOT designed for you or I (Joe Soap) as it is designed for the pinnacle of MTB riders. I will give you an example from the DH track. I built and shaped the tabletops and the Moneymaker knowing full well that i will NEVER jump them - but the way to build a track worthy of the world cup riders is to look at what you would ride (and **** yourself riding) .... and make it 3 times as hard. The sections in the PMB track are therefore not too technical, it is just that as the majority of our riders are not used to technical tracks we complain that it is too much. The international guys ride stuff like this all the time Edited March 23, 2012 by nigelhicks dman2, Capricorn, _David_ and 1 other 4
Capricorn Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Thanks for that confirmation Nigel. Always good to hear the facts.
Hairy Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 lol hairy.. was that you? Fortunately I got it right ... except that one time in the middle of the night when I came in there at a good speed to find a kid standing on the lip leading into the second bomb hole .. I went wide and collided with a near vertical wall of earth ... broke my battery mount and was a little battered ... duct tape came to the rescue
patches Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 As I stated on another thread... it's a "mountain bike", not a "district-road bike"
patches Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Even doffer, do you reckon we can get patches to show off his new lycra on the XCO circuit? Not a chance! I have a reputation to uphol... ok, maybe not! But that lycra (which I did not spend my own money on... I won it), will only be used under my baggies
Stretch Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) It appears that in South Africa, MTB (marathon and stage racing) has rapidly become the new golf Nigel, you didnt just say that - quick you can retract it on a serious note - thanks for the comments, and I will repeat what i said a few pages back. I can now aspire to do the logs and everytime i get there, i will stand above it - look down - do the b route....until one day i do it! and then it will be August 2013 and a new harder track will be built! Edited March 23, 2012 by Stretch Capricorn 1
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Well said Nige... and yes, that Mont St. Anne rock garden is a KILLER! There were loads and loads of casualties on that little area there, especially when it rained!
Capricorn Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Well said Nige... and yes, that Mont St. Anne rock garden is a KILLER! There were loads and loads of casualties on that little area there, especially when it rained! makes our rock garden look like a ride-thru massage parlour..
nigelhicks Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Oh and I must also add the following. The only person who makes a raace "out of their reach" is the rider.. Ever tech section will have a chicken run. And if you lookk aat the ladies results from the world cup in pmb, lauren hoyer of south africa was the last plaace fiinisher. What most of you won't know is that the world cup was only her 3rd EVER xco event, having done the uci rated event at giba gorge a couple of months ago and being selected for the federation team even though she came 5th out of 5! She was hesitant about the world cup but still raced and was lappped on the 2nd lap. She took all the chicken runs! And she was riding a 2008 mongoose cannan comp, with parts borrowed from my xc race bike! ... There is a prime example that - if you put you mind to it, and think "I don't care if everyone thinks I'm a sissy! I'm going to ride what I know I can" ... You can do anything. Maybe even a world cup! So xco like dh is all about calculated risk. I'd say to all of you. Give it a go. Even if you come laast. It will really help impprove your riding. As it has done for lauren (Deon) and Capricorn 2
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