Coffee machine

[V12man]

For 24usd, a v60 is a no brainer.... it basically a glass funnel you put a filter in and put on top of a cup - but then maybe you need a proper pourover kettle too....

 

Bikes, Espresso/coffee machines, cars and watches all fall into W+1... I Want another 1, or 2 or 3... good thing I have a garage that the wife does not have a key to, and she can't tell bikes apart...

[walkerr]

good thing I have a garage that the wife does not have a key to, and she can't tell bikes apart...

 

Ah ... sensible plan!

[stewie911]

Stewie - I'm not up on prices. I would guess that any commercial grade grinder would do. What separates them is a couple of things - they have much bigger burrs, so they don't build up heat or static in the coffee. Also they are built to much tighter tolerances, so the individual grains are roughly the same size. All of this is critical to espressing coffee (forcing hot water through a compacted mass of coffee grounds) but doesn't make much difference to other processes, like the Aeropress, Moka, French-press etc. If you're interested, I could explain why, but you can probably work it out.

 

When I bought my espresso machine (for so much money that I'm still in shock, nearly six years later) I also bought a burr-grinder recommended by the seller. It was a mid-range grinder from a well-known brand. But when I set up my shiny new equipment, I found it impossible to make a decent espresso. I was practically suicidal, after spending all that money. So I consulted the chat forum devoted to the Brewtus and was told what I'm telling you now.

 

I took a deep breath and bought a Mazzer Mini - the same kind of grinder you see in Woolies coffee shops - and right away I started turning out decent espressos. IIRC it cost me R3,500 for the grinder. The one i got with my machine is still in the garage somewhere. After a few years of practice, I can produced pretty good espressos - and I know what they should taste and look like because I've been a judge in the national barista championships for the past four years.

 

 

 

OK - here comes sticker shock time.

 

My slightly old price (09/2010) list shows a Mazzer mini timer at 4900 ex VAT. a mini electronic at 6800 ex, Super jolly timer electronic at 6900, a mazzer major timer at 9000, and a Kony electronic at 16000 ex.

 

I am not a fan of the base mini, but the mini electronic converted to run super Jolly burrs is ok. SJ is ok and the Kony is the dogs dangly bits (but WILL NOT fit under any kitchen cabinets known to man.

 

There are other good grinders out there, i just don't have a price list for them - expect to pay about 10k for a good one - I have a Mazzer Robur at home - big,.... wife does not approve of having it in the kitchen - so it's not in the kitchen...

 

The robur does make things easy GBguy - I find I hardly ever have to make grind adjustments like on my Mini elec (which is daily).

 

In reality, to make consistent good espresso, you are not going to get away with under 15k for a grinder and machine - however unlike bikes, they do last a long time - well looked after - 10 years or more easily - especially in a home setting.

 

To have the best of the best kit - pick a number - any number.....

 

So after spending about 20h+ reading, I decided on a Mazzer super jolly and either a Expobar Brewtus or Office Leva, which I just saw you guys talked about as well.

[V12man]

So after spending about 20h+ reading, I decided on a Mazzer super jolly and either a Expobar Brewtus or Office Leva, which I just saw you guys talked about as well.

 

Better remember to check with the better half if she is happy on the aesthetics...

 

Also - check where you plan to put that grinder - it does not fit under kitchen cabinets too well (610mm high before you open the lid) - but there is a small hopper that helps, some vendors will swap them out at no cost.

[stewie911]

Better remember to check with the better half if she is happy on the aesthetics...

 

Also - check where you plan to put that grinder - it does not fit under kitchen cabinets too well (610mm high before you open the lid) - but there is a small hopper that helps, some vendors will swap them out at no cost.

Ah, one of the benefits of still being unmarried is that my subconscious is my better half. ( He approved btw. )

 

After seeing the size again, I may go for the mazzer mine or electronic.

[GBguy]

So after spending about 20h+ reading, I decided on a Mazzer super jolly and either a Expobar Brewtus or Office Leva, which I just saw you guys talked about as well.

Woohoo! This is some serious expenditure!

 

As V12man says, the Super Jolly is a very big item - but a classic. The "Office Leva" is the European (220v) name for the (110v) Brewtus - or it can be - it's a bit ambiguous. There are single-boiler and double-boiler versions. Go for double - you'll regret buying a single boiler. Brewtus is, by definition, double-boiler - my (220v) machine is the same thing but is labelled Office Leva.

 

You may be interested in a little history. Six or seven years ago (I think) a group of 'serious' home baristas in the USA got together to design their ideal home-machine. They decided to build it around the classic E61 group head, which was common to many different commercial machines at the time, as well as a bunch of other standard parts. They finally commissioned a Spanish company - Expobar - to build the thing, with acres of stainless steel and lots of nice dials and stuff. All of this is from memory, so I may have some details wrong - you can find the definitive version at the Whole Latte Love website, IIRC.

 

Since then, a couple of other companies have done the same thing - dipping into the same generic parts-bin - including Giotto's Rocket, from Italy. The latest machines come with PID temperature control (very accurate) and rotary pumps rather than the cheap-and-noisy vibe-pump that I have. The downside is that they're still built around the ageing E61 group head, when there have been significant advances in the science of extracting espresso. Also, their prices are in the same territory as single-station commercial machines.

 

If I were doing this again, I'd definitely investigate these commercial machines before flashing my plastic. I'll PM you a couple of contacts, but in your shoes I'd also use the yellow pages. And don't forget to ask about refurbished machines (and grinders).

[V12man]

I personally do not believe there is much differerence between a double boiler and a single boiler with a heat exchanger - but it is much harder to figure out what the single boiler machine is doing temperature wise, as you need to flush to get the temp right - my one E61 machine has a thermocouple in the head (added afterwards) that helped hugely to understand how it behaved.

 

Take a look at some of the new commercial machines like Nuovo Simonelli's world champioonship machine - single boiler... and incredibly temperature stable.

 

But a rotary pump is good, although as soon as you move to a commercial machine (in theory good) some other things come into play:

 

1 - Big and take a long time to get to operating temperature - so you land up leaving them on all day and night - which eats power

2 - you generally have to provide them with water and drains, and they have an external pump - which really means you need a dedicated space for them, or be prepared to have a complex of bottles in a cart to feed and drain the beast.

 

The compromise to a commercial machine is something like the Brewtus or a La Marzocca GS3 which has both a tank and can be externally fed and drained, as well as a rotary pump.

 

The key of course is the grinder - doesn't matter what you spend on a machine, you MUST get the best grinder you can afford - even if it means compromising the machine somewhat.

 

Once you have a grinder, the next problem is finding good fresh coffee... much more difficult than it should be in this country I fear - fortunately I live within spitting distance of 1 roaster and 15 minutes away from 2 reasonable providers.

[GBguy]

Very good points, V12. Commercial machines usually have an external water filter, which can also take up a lot of space...

 

Stewie, you may also want to check out the Brewtus chat forum, here: https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!forum/brewtus

[V12man]

Here is a buyers guide to the Brewtus 3

http://www.home-barista.com/expobar-brewtus-iii-review.html

 

And a review of grinders that includes the mini and mini-e

 

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-grinder-reviews.html

 

And here is the site my E61 temp monitoring toys came from - well worth it if you do buy an E61 machine, as it demystifies your temp control significantly.

 

http://users.rcn.com/erics/

[Brian Fantana]

Big thanks to GBguy and V12man fot your input, much appreciated.

 

What do you guys think of this grinder:

 

www.hg-one.com

 

It has the same burrs as a Mazzer grinder, but it is manual. Looks very nice.

 

Another question: What do you guys think of lever espresso machines like the Elektra Microcasa and similar machines? I know that they are not as consistent as a pump machine but according to some reviews they can produce very good espresso shots, if the user knows what he is doing.

[Cippo]

i want a machine with the least amount of effort

 

Nespresso. Bought a Pixie with a seperate frother as the Citiz was too bulky and I ocassionally use the frother. For me its perfect as I leave home early in the morning and in less than a minute I have a decent cup of coffee. My favourites are Indrya and Arpeggio and Roma.

[V12man]

My understanding is that HG1 is very much a prototype still - the owner/inventor posts on home-barista.com - personally I think manual grinding is a lot of effort - especially if you like to entertain, it is not quick enough.

 

I think lever machines are cool - especially those with big commercial groupheads - One day I want one for myself, but it means finding more counter space - which is nearly impossible without modifying the house.

[stewie911]

Anyone have any comment regarding the Mahlkonig / Baritza Vario. Seems like a good choice if you will use the grinder for french press and espresso, but worried about the espresso quality when compared to Mazzer

[Grebel]

Been a while.... I can get a really good deal on a Delonghi Icona machine. Does anybody have any personal experience using these machines? Pros and cons?

[Spinnekop]

Have a Delonghi. Not sure which model. "Bean to cup" thing.

 

Works very well. Last count I had was over 3000 cups in just over 2 years.

[Grebel]

This is a basic model. Load the grounds into the handle thingy and you control the time for the espresso as well as foam your own milk etc. No digital readouts etc.