Its not about the bike, Its about the dope

[Agteros]

I would not mind racing on those levels. Mine hover around 43. I also believe in supplementing with iron at least once per year. Allot of endurence athletes are iron deficient and they dont know it

I've heard of quite a few (older - vets) guys taking iron supplement either once a year, or every few months.

The stuff gives me horrible head aches though - even the chelated versions if I'm not careful (one a day max - and then the smallest dose around).

[The_Break]

Who cares. Lance will be a living Legend for all time. He may go down as the best doper in history, one will never know what the truth is if the current evidence is all hear-say, but one thing Lance can still be sure of was that if he was doping, then he was still the best of the dopers (probably 99% of the peleton) and even when doping, you don't go and just win 7 Tour de Frances because your drugs are better then the next guys. He was and will remain the best cyclist that ever lived.

 

What have you ever achieved that comes even close to what that man did on his worst day on the bike???

Edited October 20, 2012 by The_Break

[EZRider]

Who cares. Lance will be a living Legend for all time. He may go down as the best doper in history, one will never know what the truth is if the current evidence is all hear-say, but one thing Lance can still be sure of was that if he was doping, then he was still the best of the dopers (probably 99% of the peleton) and even when doping, you don't go and just win 7 Tour de Frances because your drugs are better then the next guys. He was and will remain the best cyclist that ever lived.

 

What have you ever achieved that comes even close to what that man did on his worst day on the bike???

 

Lance has done more damage to pro cycling in the last week than all the others put together.

Rabobank, one of the biggest, oldest sponsors of women's, Pro Tour and MTB teams has left the sport.

 

What have I done that Lance did on his worst day?

Easier for me to tell you what I haven't done: cheated other honest athletes out of their wages and careers, bullied and blackmailed my competitors and team mates, lied to my fans, been a clean cut, confident and completely fake public figure espousing a cause that is so noble none would dare question me. To sum up: a liar, a cheat and a fraud.

 

You are right, he will be remembered, but the memory will be forever soiled by his lies. Remember that guy who won a whole lot of TdF's but then... there will always be the BUT.

 

It's a pity. He was a great cyclist and he probably would have won clean, especially if there wasn't a culture of doping. A culture he didn't create but one he helped perfect and entrench.

He was so good at it he has people like you, people he has never even met, jumping up and down and going "yay Lance".

[eddy]

 

 

Lance has done more damage to pro cycling in the last week than all the others put together.

 

Indeed, although the damage was done over more than a decade.

 

What have I done that Lance did on his worst day?

Easier for me to tell you what I haven't done: cheated other honest athletes out of their wages and careers, bullied and blackmailed my competitors and team mates, lied to my fans, been a clean cut, confident and completely fake public figure espousing a cause that is so noble none would dare question me. To sum up: a liar, a cheat and a fraud.

 

 

 

 

You are too kind. You forgot corrupter, destroyer of innocent people's lives, threatener of wives, ring leader in intimidation of the little people in the peloton, etc

 

 

 

 

He was a great cyclist and he probably would have won clean, especially if there wasn't a culture of doping.

 

 

There is no evidence he would have been anything other than what he was before. On dope, a good one day rider, occasional early stage winner, regular DNF'er in grand tours and back of the pack finisher if he actually got over the mountains.

 

The evidence is rather that that doping, far from "creating a level playing field", created a less level field where those with the most money, with the higest risk tolerance for doping and the best response to the doping would benefit more.

 

It was tailor made to have a politically well connected sociopath riding for the richest team dominate.

Edited October 21, 2012 by eddy

[Jaco-fiets]

Yip! Lance must be the only one to cheat others out of earnings since he obviously was the only doper/instagator in the last decade and lets not forget that he single handedly introduced a doping culture into the sport and lets also not forget that Postal was the only team who had this system. I mean, the Festina affair never happened.........

 

Was it Hinault that said that the hardest race he ever had was the one the he did not take amphetamines? Maybe it was one of the other big names of the old days.

 

It is just so convenient to put al the sins of pro cycling on the head of one guy. This way we can fool ourselves that the solution is easier than it really is.

 

Im sure i read in that Rabobank report that their issue is that a doping culture is supported in the higher management of the sport but hey, lets just blame Lance for this one as well

Edited October 21, 2012 by Jaco-fiets

[EZRider]

Yip! Lance must be the only one to cheat others out of earnings since he obviously was the only doper/instagator in the last decade and lets not forget that he single handedly introduced a doping culture into the sport and lets also not forget that Postal was the only team who had this system. I mean, the Festina affair never happened.........

 

Was it Hinault that said that the hardest race he ever had was the one the he did not take amphetamines? Maybe it was one of the other big names of the old days.

 

It is just so convenient to put al the since of pro cycling on the head of one guy. This way we can fool ourselves that the solution is easier than it really is.

 

Im sure i read in that Rabobank report that their issue is that a doping culture is supported in the higher management of the sport but hey, lets just blame Lance for this one as well

 

This thread isn't about the others.

Why is it that you continuously justify his actions by insisting that others did the same?

You are missing the point. There were cyclists that did not dope and they are the ones that were hard done by.

What is it about LA that makes you defend him like this?

Is it the inherent unfairness of others receiving less negative attention or lighter sentences?

If so then: seriously???? Fairness???? For one of the biggest cheats of all time?

Is it the good he has done.

Cancer good? Okay. Cycling good? All broken now. Good deeds never excuse bad ones. That's a slippery moral slope that leads to disaster.

Or is it that you were just taken by his square jaw and American promise? Hypocrisy at the highest level.

He is a bad man. The sooner you realise that the sooner you will stop posting on LA doper threads with "they all did it" bollocks. They didn't all do it. Only the successful ones did. That's why we are so peed off!

[HappyMartin]

LA the greatest of all time? Please. Don't me me laugh. He focussed on one race a year and doped to hell to do it. He also doped his team to hell.

 

You cannot compare him to the likes of Merx who raced up to 250 days a year and won close to 100 races a year. Grand tours, classics the lot.

 

What of Fausto Coppi who just about invented modern racing with domestiques working as a team.

 

As for doing good what about Bartalli who risked his life riding around Italy during WW II on missions to rescue Jews from the Nazis. Beats flying around in a private jet to talk at self congratulatory Livstrong events

 

Sorry but to call LA the greatest bike racer of all time betrays nothing but ignorance of the sports history.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

 

 

This thread isn't about the others.

Why is it that you continuously justify his actions by insisting that others did the same?

You are missing the point. There were cyclists that did not dope and they are the ones that were hard done by.

What is it about LA that makes you defend him like this?

Is it the inherent unfairness of others receiving less negative attention or lighter sentences?

If so then: seriously???? Fairness???? For one of the biggest cheats of all time?

Is it the good he has done.

Cancer good? Okay. Cycling good? All broken now. Good deeds never excuse bad ones. That's a slippery moral slope that leads to disaster.

Or is it that you were just taken by his square jaw and American promise? Hypocrisy at the highest level.

He is a bad man. The sooner you realise that the sooner you will stop posting on LA doper threads with "they all did it" bollocks. They didn't all do it. Only the successful ones did. That's why we are so peed off!

 

He wasn't defending LA. He was riling against the naivety of piling all this "atrocity" at the foot of one man, when he was just the biggest fish in the pond.

 

Rabobank's withdrawal had nothing to do with Lance himself, or, rather, nothing near as much to do with m as you think. It has everything to do with the increasing amount of riders being suspended, investigated and outed as cheats, liars and systemic dopers. The fact that LA is at the head of all of this is incorrect, only because he was the persin USADA went against the hardest in order to get the most amunt of exposure....

 

It's almost as if he was the "hole in the sandbag" and once he was popped, everyne else followed. Te withdrawals you see now are as a direct result of "everybody else who followed" as well as their testimonies in the report. To think that LA was the sole reason for all these guys pulling out is, actually, as much of an head in the sand situation as all those others who believe that he was the only doper.

[ThaStig]

LA the greatest of all time? Please. Don't me me laugh. He focussed on one race a year and doped to hell to do it. He also doped his team to hell.

 

You cannot compare him to the likes of Merx who raced up to 250 days a year and won close to 100 races a year. Grand tours, classics the lot.

 

What of Fausto Coppi who just about invented modern racing with domestiques working as a team.

 

As for doing good what about Bartalli who risked his life riding around Italy during WW II on missions to rescue Jews from the Nazis. Beats flying around in a private jet to talk at self congratulatory Livstrong events

 

Sorry but to call LA the greatest bike racer of all time betrays nothing but ignorance of the sports history.

And Mercx didn't dope?

[HappyMartin]

 

And Mercx didn't dope?

 

I didn't say he did or didn't. The point was people are saying LA was the greatest rider of all time even though he doped as he was competing against other riders who also doped. Therefore doping is out of the equation in this comparison. I never set this as a standard I merely responded to it.

[ThaStig]

I didn't say he did or didn't. The point was people are saying LA was the greatest rider of all time even though he doped as he was competing against other riders who also doped. Therefore doping is out of the equation in this comparison. I never set this as a standard I merely responded to it.

I agree that Mercx was the greatest, but people tend to forget that he doped too. sorry allegedly.

[EZRider]

 

 

He wasn't defending LA. He was riling against the naivety of piling all this "atrocity" at the foot of one man, when he was just the biggest fish in the pond.

 

Rabobank's withdrawal had nothing to do with Lance himself, or, rather, nothing near as much to do with m as you think. It has everything to do with the increasing amount of riders being suspended, investigated and outed as cheats, liars and systemic dopers. The fact that LA is at the head of all of this is incorrect, only because he was the persin USADA went against the hardest in order to get the most amunt of exposure....

 

It's almost as if he was the "hole in the sandbag" and once he was popped, everyne else followed. Te withdrawals you see now are as a direct result of "everybody else who followed" as well as their testimonies in the report. To think that LA was the sole reason for all these guys pulling out is, actually, as much of an head in the sand situation as all those others who believe that he was the only doper.

 

You are correct, except that this "riling"happens on all the LA dope threads. Life is unfair. He was the biggest star and will attract the most of the dumping.

Fairness? Really? That's what you are worried about? The world is being unfair to Lance by dumping it all in his doorstep?

I feel so sorry for the multi million dollar hero adored by millions because he is being unfairly treated because he was not the only and perhaps not even the biggest cheat... Oh my goodness!

It's not that we are naive... It's just that burning one witch actually means that there is one less witch.

[GoLefty!!]

LA the greatest of all time? Please. Don't me me laugh. He focussed on one race a year and doped to hell to do it. He also doped his team to hell.

 

You cannot compare him to the likes of Merx who raced up to 250 days a year and won close to 100 races a year. Grand tours, classics the lot.

 

What of Fausto Coppi who just about invented modern racing with domestiques working as a team.

 

As for doing good what about Bartalli who risked his life riding around Italy during WW II on missions to rescue Jews from the Nazis. Beats flying around in a private jet to talk at self congratulatory Livstrong events

 

Sorry but to call LA the greatest bike racer of all time betrays nothing but ignorance of the sports history.

 

 

argh the usual one race doping champ vs the multiple race doping champ. Somehow time makes it more managable that they doped themselves to the hilt in the 60's and 70's with painkillers....

 

How much mystique is built around Merckx accomplishments? A whole culture actually. Please lets not let tunnel vision, rose tinted glasses and all those cliche's spoil the view of reality.

Edited October 21, 2012 by GoLefty!!

[HappyMartin]

 

 

 

argh the usual one race doping champ vs the multiple race doping champ. Somehow time makes it more managable that they doped themselves to the hilt in the 60's and 70's with painkillers....

 

How much mystique is built around Merckx accomplishments? A whole culture actually. Please lets not let tunnel vision, rose tinted glasses and all those cliche's spoil the view of reality.

 

Also never said that all was cool in the 60's and 70's. also never said it was all sunshine and roses prior to that. You assume I am looking at it romantically but I see no where in my post that I gave any indication that was my point of view.

 

All I am saying is 7 TDF wins is very slender evidence that he was the greatest cyclist of all times when you compare to the results of other riders.

 

I never mentioned doping or implied that the sport was cleaner or more pure. That was your assumption.

[Sandro]

I don't think any of us have the right to actully judge unless we've competed at that level in cycling. I think when you've committed that much of your life to winning and endured so much then there's very little you won't do to compete. And that's what it comes down to I'm afraid. Once again, don't hate the player, hate the game. We can all sit here and judge with our 'holier than though' opinions but quite frankly, we don't know jack of what it must actually be like.

[GoLefty!!]

Happy marton, are these your words?:

 

"LA the greatest of all time? Please. Don't me me laugh. He focussed on one race a year and doped to hell to do it. He also doped his team to hell.

 

You cannot compare him to the likes of Merx who raced up to 250 days a year and won close to 100 races a year. Grand tours, classics the lot.

 

What of Fausto Coppi who just about invented modern racing with domestiques working as a team.

 

As for doing good what about Bartalli who risked his life riding around Italy during WW II on missions to rescue Jews from the Nazis. Beats flying around in a private jet to talk at self congratulatory Livstrong events

 

Sorry but to call LA the greatest bike racer of all time betrays nothing but ignorance of the sports history."

 

 

So lets see, you introduce Merckx accomplishments in comparison to Armstrongs.... by comparing the amount of days they raced and how much Merckx won over that time (on painkillers and other pharmaceuticals.)

 

you compare a WWII cyclists mercy missions to competitive cycling.

 

And then you cliam you're not trying to romanticise the history and that you're just comparing objectively...

 

Hmm you're lying to yourself, not to others...

 

You cannot take one offense and rate it as more contributory then past offences that have been romanticised to make the sports history seem credible. Its not romantic and it should not be accepted at any level. You either take a stance against doping, past, present and future, or you condone it and accept it as part of the sport. Armstrong doping is as much a part of the history of the sport as Merckx doping that somehow seems to be glossed over.

 

Its no longer about the people but about the principal. Failure to accept that the principal is rotten at any time in history is the same as trying to believe that Apartheid never happened or the Holocast was just because it was the culture of the time. Bull F888ing S**t

 

Doping is doping

Edited October 21, 2012 by GoLefty!!