Fake Pina's on Gumtree

[The_Break]

Fake vs. Genuine? Lets put it simply. You will only truly know just how much of an advantage a genuine bike has over the poor quality fakes when you have ridden entry level right up to tour level bikes. There is no comparison. Bikes make a massive very percievable difference to performance. Unless you have ridden the real deal you wont umderstand it. So to all the smart alecs who comment without experience, rather get some first.

[Azonic]

Probably superior, made with quality Toray carbon. With the fakes you have no idea where it was made and what the quality control is. If you think they come from the same factory using the same carbon then you are mistaken.

 

"Probably" ? What makes you say that? Because Pinarello says so on their big bucks, colourful website? Versus a blurry photo taken with a fake Nokia phone in a Chinese factory? No points won there bud.

 

"With the fakes you have no idea where it was made and what the quality control is." ........and with the "real" ones..... you do? Or again, assumed because its a "famous" brand?

 

The Chinese frames adhere to EN Standards and have to go through the Chinese equivalent of the SABS before its allowed to be exported. I've had indepth discussions with people at the factories as I was getting one myself and didn't want to buy a lemon.

 

Most Chinese frames use Toray T700 carbon, where the very newest bikes on the market use T800. This is why the Chinese frames are +/- 50g heavier than the "real", as you would put it. But, that 50g makes the slightly older version of carbon just as strong as the never revision.

 

I know at least 6 guys with blank frames, some strong roadies and MTB'ers. No hassles what so ever.

[ThaStig]

Again... What is a "real" Dogma... And superior?

A real dogma is a bike manufactured under license and registered trademark for Pinarello by a chinese factory and subject to their (Pina's) strict QA and covered by their warrantee. And argue as you might there is no way around this, if it is not covered by the above and if Pinarello does not cover it's warrantee then it is not a real Dogma. Pina has been in the game a long time, with obvious excellence attached to the brand.

 

I know some-one who imports tools from China and on his first visit to the factory the manufacturer asked him how much he was prepared to pay per item; because that would determine the quality he'd get. They were prepared to manufacture anything he required to any quality, but the higher the quality the more expensive it would be.

[Azonic]

Fake vs. Genuine? Lets put it simply. You will only truly know just how much of an advantage a genuine bike has over the poor quality fakes when you have ridden entry level right up to tour level bikes. There is no comparison. Bikes make a massive very percievable difference to performance. Unless you have ridden the real deal you wont umderstand it. So to all the smart alecs who comment without experience, rather get some first.

 

Smart Alec here.

 

The blank Dogma I posted, the frame is super rigid. Push against the crankset from the side and the frame barely flexes. There are zero, to very little Pros on this forum. IF there was a "massive" difference, no-one of us here have the legs to be able to feel that difference. And quite frankly I'm not interested in spending an extra R36k just so for a warm'n'fuzzy feeling inside that I'm riding an "original" (...which is also made in China). Flip, I'd actually feel like a Wally for not saving that cash and spending it elsewhere.

[Azonic]

A real dogma is a bike manufactured under license and registered trademark for Pinarello by a chinese factory and subject to their (Pina's) strict QA and covered by their warrantee. And argue as you might there is no way around this, if it is not covered by the above and if Pinarello does not cover it's warrantee then it is not a real Dogma. Pina has been in the game a long time, with obvious excellence attached to the brand.

 

I understand the legal mumbo-jumbo, and the warrentee angle. And I agree. Pinarello will call that a "real" one because you paid them to. Why would I pay R40k (and I'm using that number because I don't know what a Dogma frame costs), where I could just get a R4k frame, and IF it cracks, I can just get another one. Repeat the process 10 times, which in real life won't happen.

 

"...excellence attached to the brand" - this adds no value for me. Building bikes for 40 years, wow. So what? Gjing Yong got the same mold down the street and he doesn't have to upkeep a fancy website and marketing campaings. Maybe I'm just stingy, don't know and don't care. Won't be buying a brand ever again. And by the amount of hubbers that PM me to ask for importing tips, I'm sure plenty others are going the same angle.

[Azonic]

Pardon me while I go pour some Coka Cola out of a famous red labeled bottle, because Pick 'n Pay's half-price Cola isn't good enough for me!

[Showtime]

 

 

Smart Alec here.

 

The blank Dogma I posted, the frame is super rigid. Push against the crankset from the side and the frame barely flexes. There are zero, to very little Pros on this forum. IF there was a "massive" difference, no-one of us here have the legs to be able to feel that difference. And quite frankly I'm not interested in spending an extra R36k just so for a warm'n'fuzzy feeling inside that I'm riding an "original" (...which is also made in China). Flip, I'd actually feel like a Wally for not saving that cash and spending it elsewhere.

 

This is unreal. If you think a Dogma is overpriced and the difference not discernable for most of us buy a generic original design frame. Piggy backing on someones design and brand is stealing plain and simple.

[Azonic]

 

 

This is unreal. If you think a Dogma is overpriced and the difference not discernable for most of us buy a generic original design frame. Piggy backing on someones design and brand is stealing plain and simple.

 

Yep. Not discernable. How many fakes have you ridden? If you can tell a difference it might be because of that PowerBalance you are wearing. Apparently that also makes a discernable difference.

[ThaStig]

I understand the legal mumbo-jumbo, and the warrentee angle. And I agree. Pinarello will call that a "real" one because you paid them to. Why would I pay R40k (and I'm using that number because I don't know what a Dogma frame costs), where I could just get a R4k frame, and IF it cracks, I can just get another one. Repeat the process 10 times, which in real life won't happen.

 

"...excellence attached to the brand" - this adds no value for me. Building bikes for 40 years, wow. So what? Gjing Yong got the same mold down the street and he doesn't have to upkeep a fancy website and marketing campaings. Maybe I'm just stingy, don't know and don't care. Won't be buying a brand ever again. And by the amount of hubbers that PM me to ask for importing tips, I'm sure plenty others are going the same angle.

Yeah but the big difference and the one which caused the post in the first place; you are selling "blanks" at reasonable prices, where the other tjop/s are selling fakes branded as dogmas for a few pennies more.

 

So if you have the bucks and want to spend it on a real Dogma (the same reason middle aged rich/not so rich, toupee wearing guys buy ferraris/porsches etc) go ahead, it's a choice no one's holding a gun to your head. If you can't afford/dont want to spend the money, then buy a blank, but don't try and justify it with the "same factory/moulds/materials bullish!t; you've taken the cheaper option be proud of it, don't hide behind fake decals. Remember Fiats were built in the Ferrari factories too :-)

[Azonic]

Ok lets squash this. Piracy is bad mmmkay. Stealing is bad mmmkay. What I AM saying is that the ride you will get out of a Chinese frame is SO close to the original that it is good enough for anyone here. And ever faster guys. If you want a "real" Pina then go get yourself one. If you want a frame that gives, at least for me, 99.999% the same performance at 99.999% the same weight for about 15% if the price then get a Chinese blank frame. Simple. I've ridden allot if bikes so its a bit more than an educated guess.

[ThaStig]

Yep. Not discernable. How many fakes have you ridden? If you can tell a difference it might be because of that PowerBalance you are wearing. Apparently that also makes a discernable difference.

 

Yip, the Azonic I've come to know on the hub, when some raises his opinion he is treated with ridicule. Nice one bud....keep up the good work.

[ThaStig]

Ok lets squash this. Piracy is bad mmmkay. Stealing is bad mmmkay. What I AM saying is that the ride you will get out of a Chinese frame is SO close to the original that it is good enough for anyone here. And ever faster guys. If you want a "real" Pina then go get yourself one. If you want a frame that gives, at least for me, 99.999% the same performance at 99.999% the same weight for about 15% if the price then get a Chinese blank frame. Simple. I've ridden allot if bikes so its a bit more than an educated guess.

 

Then say so dammit!!!

[Azonic]

Stig. For sure. The thread split somewhere. I am against saying a fake IS the real thing and then selling as such. What I am saying is that a fake is good enough for most people, by far. And ppl that argue either have never seen a fake up close or never rode one. Or, already own a real one, or a rug, or a Ferrari and need to justify it.

[mavrick]

Ok lets squash this. Piracy is bad mmmkay. Stealing is bad mmmkay. What I AM saying is that the ride you will get out of a Chinese frame is SO close to the original that it is good enough for anyone here. And ever faster guys. If you want a "real" Pina then go get yourself one. If you want a frame that gives, at least for me, 99.999% the same performance at 99.999% the same weight for about 15% if the price then get a Chinese blank frame. Simple. I've ridden allot if bikes so its a bit more than an educated guess.

 

Yes like the LEVI ( American ) jeans made in China and now on my doorstep in Epping industria and it's still cotton and looks the part Or do I buy the Armani jeans R3000 from Fabiani or the ChinaMani for 1/4 the price and still look the part. I go the China way Where can I get the Ferrari ??

[MTB_Roadie]

okay, I think some people lost the plot on this topic.....I just warned people about someone selling a fake Pina but advertising it as a Pina.

 

So if some people are fine with it will you go buy it? Will you pay R35k for the bike as it stands there?

 

Don't tell everyone you ride a Pina meanwhile you ride a blank frame....same with those Fake Spez Venge bikes.....don't tell everyone you ride a Venge, as you dont, the bike did not come with the booklet or the option to register it online.....so it is not a Venge....it is a blank chinese branded frame, so call it chinese import...

[javadude]

Stig. For sure. The thread split somewhere. I am against saying a fake IS the real thing and then selling as such.

 

Prove it.