Cyclists' Safety in the light of Burry and other's recent deaths - Merged Thread.

[Cippo]

 

 

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Driver-in-court-for-Burry-Stander-death-20130107

 

The case was merely postponed until then.

We don't always consider this, but our courts are ridiculously backlogged.

 

Fair enough but not even bail.

[gogo@]

I have no legal background but if I read between the lines and if you take into account the outcome of the jub jub case, it would appear that the evidence is pointing out that the accident was an accident in legal terms.

If the guy crossed a solid white line as seems to be indicated, I don't think it's considered an accident. Liability in law starts there with breaking the law. This is why it would be a charge of culpable homicide. If it were an accident or the cyclist's fault, no culpability on the driver's part.

[Cippo]

thing with culpable homicide, is implies your (accused) actions were the cause of someone else's death,

 

which fits here perfectly.

 

2 poins count against him, he crossed a solid line, and well, the I'm sorry did not see him counts for nothing.

 

So my view is taxi driver is guilty,

 

So ye our courts are full, they had to release him, till trial date, I hope they had the2 brain cells to revoke/suspend his public transport license in the interim, although I'm not a betting man and well I still wont take this bet.

 

G

 

Im sure that same taxi is patched up and running again

[gogo@]

thing with culpable homicide, is implies your (accused) actions were the cause of someone else's death,

 

which fits here perfectly.

 

2 poins count against him, he crossed a solid line, and well, the I'm sorry did not see him counts for nothing.

 

So my view is taxi driver is guilty

 

G

Same.

And it would be nice to know that he's not out driving but I bet the argument he has a family to support plays a big role.

[awesme]

The taxi's seldom belong to the driver actually, you will find there is normally a taxi owner, they pay the owner a rate per day, and whatever they make above that is theirs, and there in lies the problem. the more people they load, the faster they do loads the better the chance they get into this self earning bracket.

 

Compared to pubic transport in the US and UK, where the bus is paid to do a route, does not matter if full or note, he drives the same route, every day (well normally 3 months and then changes) and get paid for it, removing the "sweetener" to brake the law.

 

Government has been looking into making this change for a while, with major opposition from the taxi unions.

 

G

 

Im sure that same taxi is patched up and running again

[Simon Kolin]

His intent may have been fine, but he put a lot more than just his foot in his mouth.

 

He did indeed.

[awesme]

again, there should be no argument, it should be a defined process, public transport driver involved in a accident, license revoked until cleared, no discussion.

 

G

 

Same.

And it would be nice to know that he's not out driving but I bet the argument he has a family to support plays a big role.

['Dale]

 

As well as not realising just how fast a bike in the hands of a fit person can actually be travelling.

 

Yebo.

Underestimation.

[Simon Kolin]

.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Simon Kolin

[HeyYou]

The most senisble post in the entire thread IMO. Safety first. So much agro and unpleasantness in this thread. Do road cyclists behave any worse here than in Europe for instance? I hear tales of infinite patience from motorists when waiting to pass cyclists on busy alpine passes. Where is the patience here?

 

Most of the posts start with a fallacious premis - that cyclists behaviour somehow contributes to fatal accidents and respect is somehow earned, ie if roadies don't do bunches and stick to red lights, motorists will somehow drive more carefully. This is nonsense. As someone else has pointed out, there is little if any correlation between cyclits breaking the law and fatal accidents.

 

I used to commute via motorcycle years ago. Always headlight on high beam. Still came close to a serious accident when a car cut me off. I drive thousands of km a year but have never had a problem with a cyclist. After ten Argus tours I have given up riding on the road because of motorist behavior. I was hit while out on my MTB in the 1990's - broad daylight. I had right of way, car simply cut me off. I could have ended up like Burry, but luckily flew over the car hood and did a full 360, ended up with minor injuries and walked home.

 

Why blame has to be apportioned to cyclists because some break the road rules makes little sense to me. Cyclists deaths and accidents with cars are not in the main due to cyclsits breaking rules. They are due to negligent car driving and drunk drivers.

 

By all means ride your bike lawfully, with courtesy and consideration but don't expect that to make a jot of difference to your chance of getting hit by a car. Even a minor contact can be fatal for the far lighter more exposed biker/cyclist. You are less visible on your bike and motorists arent attuned to look for cyclists.

 

Perhaps it's the behaviour of the cyclists when they are driving their cars?

I've certainly seen some very poor driving by people with bikes in racks, presumably cyclists. If we don't 'behave', how on earth do we expect others to?

[Clinton1]

Tragic event! RIP Burry. I reckon there are a lot of people on bikes riding due to your achievements.

 

I just read through this thread and there seems to be a lot of speculation. I obviously have no eye witness account personally but I had read something from an actual eye witness on IOL which I felt was worth sharing.

 

http://www.iol.co.za...19#.UOrxZIfXArW

 

 

A witness, Kevin Govender, who works at a nearby Shelly Beach liquor store, said there was peak traffic at the time. He saw a Toyota Quantum, driving from the direction of Port Shepstone, and also saw Stander who was cycling in the opposite direction.

 

“I then saw the taxi turn into Stott Road and at the same time the cyclist was also crossing this road. There was a bang and I saw that the cyclist had hit the left side of the taxi and a mirror and window had broken,” he said.

Govender said Stander was flung on to Marine Drive.

 

So that describes the taxi coming from the Port Shepstone direction. Burry heading towards Port Shepstone. The taxi then turned into Stott Str in front of Burry. Note that there is a solid white line on the taxi side of the road. The image below shows the direction Burry was apparently travelling:

 

http://cdn.24.co.za/files/Cms/General/d/2229/a8c1611eeaf5487aa889fc9b629e5b5d.jpg

 

 

Another report in Die Beeld implies that Burry was riding within the yellow line :

 

Die taxi wou blykbaar links in Stottstraat afdraai en het net voor die kruising met dié straat teen Stander gebots, wat links van die geel streep gery het.

 

Sharing the image of the taxi adds to the confusion. Very little damage to be honest. But it does seem to show that the impact was more in the front than a true "t-boning" as some seem to be mentioning.

 

http://cdn.24.co.za/files/Cms/General/d/2229/a83043b47ce948dfa640523632e46eee.jpg

 

 

Burry's bike:

 

http://cdn.24.co.za/files/Cms/General/d/2229/228843cfefa74c4fbace30ba17b6668b.jpg

Edited January 7, 2013 by Clint_ZA

[blacksmith]

 

We also have to understand how the brain works. 9 out of 10 times it won't recognize a cyclist because it's not processing your outlines or shape. It recognizes cars, bakkies and trucks almost exclusively. Not all motorists, but most. Ask any motorbiker what it's like to see how a motorist is looking straight at you, but then still cross the road at an intersection straight in front of you. Most of the time you can actually see they had no idea you where coming straight at them. The brain recognize a shape and process that as relevant info. The eye sends PLENTY of info through the whole time. It sends the full view through the brain process what it needs.

 

This is a good point, which is where I think visibility is probably the most crucial factor. Put on a decent pair of lights, front and back, and put them in strobe mode. In day time. Its amazing what a difference a strobe does to catch one's attention vs a fixed light. The amount of times I've only noticed a cyclist (no lights) when almost next to him, vs those having proper lights in strobe mode. And no, the cute little red led is not an option, unless you're riding at night. I have one of those magic shine lights with the huge battery pack. Look like a christmas tree, but I know I'm visible.

 

Cyclist seem to think that because its daytime you are visible, which is far from the truth. Big groups are visible, and although annoying, inconsiderate etc etc, they are visible and are rarely run over. Its the bloke all on his own thats in trouble

[Azonic]

Looks like some self righteous **** moderated the thread. Way to go. You would have fitted in well with Hitler's Stasi police.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Azonic

[TNT1]

Looks like some self righteous **** moderated the thread. Way to go. You would have fitted in well with Hitler's Stasi police.

 

Agree!

 

Mod, post here:

https://www.bikehub.co.za/f/78-moderation-announcements/

[awesme]

Just heard a good piece of news, the Taxi in question was impounded.

 

G

[TNT1]

Tragic event! RIP Burry. I reckon there are a lot of people on bikes riding due to your achievements.

 

 

Thanks for that post Clint. It certainly clears a lot up for me.