LCHF - Low Carb High Fat Diet Ver 2

[Helpmytrap]

I thought I'd see what Lo GI veg does to my BG, so I made a super salad. Super referring to nutritious... BG before was 3.8 and 30min postprandial was 5.2. At 10g carbs per meal with majority fibre I know I can actually eat this twice a day to get enough micronutrients in.

 

EDIT: I see my 60g of raw spinach didn't make it onto there.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Helpmytrap

[DustOrBust]

What is the price of Ketostix?

 

I tried local pharmacy, and Dischem who said they are only available from there in-house clinic. I have ordered from wantiitall. Still to arrive:

 

http://www.wantitall.co.za/ketostix/All/p1

[Helpmytrap]

Those are ridiculously expensive compared to @flexia's prices!

[Rondebeentjies]

did not work........ try again Edited July 18, 2013 by Rondebeentjies

[Rondebeentjies]

Congrats on maintaining the weight (more than a few us can say on here... ) !

 

The ketostix show whether you are in dietary ketosis or not - this is not super NB for many people, but for me it is, as that was how I determined when my carb intake took my body out of ketosis, i.e. how sensitive I am to carbs. Interestingly enough, the longer I am eating low-carb, the more sensitive I seem to become. I could initially quite easily get away with well over 100g of carbs per day and if I dipped out of ketosis I would be back in the next day. Now the limit is somewhere between 70 - 80g of carbs then my BG starts spiking (that's the meter you are asking about) and I go out of ketosis. My last little inspired experiment took me almost 3 days to get control over my BG levels and get my ketone readings to what would be +++ on the ketostix.

 

I am busy reading Peter Attia's article that I posted a link to this morning, and it bears out what I have experienced - being in ketosis is not a guarantee that you would lose weight. Having said that, I can almost certainly say that not being in ketosis (for me) is an almost certain recipe to gain weight.

 

How long have you been doing strict LCHF ? I ask because it takes a good couple of months and you need to surf that bonk so that your body can get used to switching between energy sources - remember that if you are fully fat adapted the intake of fats won't really matter - your body carries ample of its own fat and it will just as readily break that down as consumed dietary fat (except for MCT's which are easier to use as an energy source).

Htone, I've been at it for 5 months now. The biggest benefit has been the ability not to have to drink anything besides water while training. I have purposefully also been training at racepace to test the effect, and on a few occasions found myself without energy.

 

As I progress, I am wondering about endurance events and the nutrition you would take. I would personally not want to go sugar and Gu type syrups and the like, but some carbs would be ok because you burn it? Talking about potato here, am I right in my thinking?

 

Any suggestions and advice on what you guys have found to be good foods whiles on the move?

 

Much appreciated,

 

Roundedlegman

[Helpmytrap]

Some lekker roasted cashews. But I'm sure it'll depend in what zone you are riding; below LT you could have MCT, although not necessary. But I'm sure that potatoes are your best bet when above threshold.

I will definitely keep a close eye on this topic since that is the type of riding I do 60% of the time.

 

What would really help is if JCZA could give us some scientific data (as will I once I get Ketostix), ie Ketone body concentration before race day and then after race day with the race being fuelled on Hi GI carbs like GU's and "race mix" or whatever you call the stuff you put in your bottles.

 

What I'm going to do this weekend is ride with a bottle of SingletrackFuel and water on stage 1 and 2 (that way I get carbs and protein) and then a conventional carb mix and water on the final stage. I'll also take GU's when feeling flat.

[jcza]

Some lekker roasted cashews. But I'm sure it'll depend in what zone you are riding; below LT you could have MCT, although not necessary. But I'm sure that potatoes are your best bet when above threshold.

I will definitely keep a close eye on this topic since that is the type of riding I do 60% of the time.

 

What would really help is if JCZA could give us some scientific data (as will I once I get Ketostix), ie Ketone body concentration before race day and then after race day with the race being fuelled on Hi GI carbs like GU's and "race mix" or whatever you call the stuff you put in your bottles.

 

What I'm going to do this weekend is ride with a bottle of SingletrackFuel and water on stage 1 and 2 (that way I get carbs and protein) and then a conventional carb mix and water on the final stage. I'll also take GU's when feeling flat.

 

I don't have specific scientific data other than history of tracking food intake, HR, weight, training and racing data. I used the sticks for a while, saw regular purple and stopped using them. I'm now fully aware of what and how much to eat and what works on race day and immediately after the race. I have modified things slightly after reading Paleo for Endurance Athletes by Friel and Courdain where they recon fat burns in a carb fire, i.e. you still need some carbs and more importantly you need full glycogen stores pre-race. I also use Singletrack Fuel and Vooma. I drink less in winter and take a vooma roughly every hour, depending on how I feel. Post-race chocolate milk, water or beer (yes yes I know, don't say it). Strangely enough I'm normally not very hungry immediately after a race/hard ride.

 

HMT I would say have a bottle of STF pre-race, take STF on the bike and a couple of GU's/Voomas and you should be ok. Night before eat your normal LCHF food, if nervous about loading stores add butternut or pumpkin.

 

Go dish out the pain!

[Da Vinci]

Ok - not having a good week... One minute I'm doing awesome and the next I fall off the wagon and the feel ill.... Viscous circle....

Oh and I think I ate my kefir grains......

Edited July 18, 2013 by Da Vinci

[Da Vinci]

Oh and HTone - about your little detox issue... See point #4

Edited July 18, 2013 by Da Vinci

[tombeej]

Oh and I think I ate my kefir grains......

 

:D

[htone]

I tried local pharmacy, and Dischem who said they are only available from there in-house clinic. I have ordered from wantiitall. Still to arrive:

 

http://www.wantitall...ketostix/All/p1

 

That's a rip-off DustOrBust - at R150 for 100 ketostix + R80 shipping from @flexia I would cancel that order and just get from her !

[htone]

Ok - not having a good week... One minute I'm doing awesome and the next I fall off the wagon and the feel ill.... Viscous circle....

Oh and I think I ate my kefir grains......

 

a) You are probably only really going into ketosis now - welcome !

b ) A lot of people eat (some) of the grains as well - apparently very nutritious. Mine has grown quite nicely so I can let you have some more

Edited July 19, 2013 by htone

[htone]

Htone, I've been at it for 5 months now. The biggest benefit has been the ability not to have to drink anything besides water while training. I have purposefully also been training at racepace to test the effect, and on a few occasions found myself without energy.

 

As I progress, I am wondering about endurance events and the nutrition you would take. I would personally not want to go sugar and Gu type syrups and the like, but some carbs would be ok because you burn it? Talking about potato here, am I right in my thinking?

 

Any suggestions and advice on what you guys have found to be good foods whiles on the move?

 

Much appreciated,

 

Roundedlegman

 

RDB, I am beginning to lean towards high-impact, good quality carbs during a race, rather than something like potatoes which may or may not have the desired effect (as this varies hugely between individuals). If you are racing and you are serious about it, then hit your carbs stores hard with a quality supplement like JCZA described - the more I am reading guys like Friel, the more this is beginning to make sense.

 

If you have the luxury of time and you can allow yourself to fully adapt AND you can test your own reaction to fuelling with e.g. potatoes under race conditions - by all means, those would be perfect circumstances. This is something that I will always try and aim for, but I think there are sometimes practical constraints as well.

 

Also keep in mind that the more you train (and race) without heavy supplementation, the less you will depend on those supplements. However, if you are in a balls-to the-wall, flat-out race situation or you are doing a multi-day stage race, you are going to get to a point where you need energy NOW, and that's where everything is pointing to fuelling with a good quality external carb source, which will burn off quickly as preferential fuel and your body will be able to replenish a lot quicker.

 

I personally find GU to sweet and it makes me nauseous, but I reckon if you carry a pre-mixed water bottle with the product of your choice, that would be your go-to solution when you need energy pronto.

 

Hope this is making sense ?

 

edit : If you are in an emergency situation, e.g. you are bonking and about to fall off the bike, then take something that contains carbs and caffeine - this is why Coke has saved many riders' butts - even Phinney mentions that combination as the ultimate short-term refuelling strategy.

Edited July 19, 2013 by htone

[Roux 1]

Below some data on a training and LCHF eating I experienced as of late:::

 

Data:

• Training principal:: Maffetone's regime, my max aerobic HR is 140. Training is done below that or sometimes slightly above. Done that for past 13 weeks. High hourly weeks////
  
• Eating: LCHF .
  
• BG: tested numerous times before/after training and eating. Even with meals the range is 3,7-4,8 mmol/L. Even after a loooong ride
  
• Before ride in morning I drink my own coffee with double cream, coconut oil and butter.
  
• In this 13 weeks I did 3 intensity sessions. All were races:: BG in above mentioned range, BUT my ave HR for the races were 90% of max. I ride on water only. Rewind 5 months and it was 82% WHY?
  
• The past Saturday I did MTB session with following data:
  
  • I rode to a race on MTB, took 3h27min. BG before 4.3mmol/L kept HR below 140bpm
    
  • Did a race 40km MTB, I did go as fast as I could , did not have high intensity output.
    
  • After race another 2h30 back home HR below 140bpm.
    

  [*]Felt good after loooong session

  [*]Snacks: droe wors, biltong peacan nuts and peptopro.

  [*]BG at home after session: 4,1

  [*]I did not eat the fridge when I got home, after eating later I consumed not enough calories, huge deficit>>> was full.

I also use urine sticks that measure a spectrum of things: As of late blood ph is low, protein in urine, no glucose, ketones almost nothing(hopefully I used everything in training). Sometimes even blood indicated, but that is a false indication according to some reading I have done on that.

 

Some of the posts of late spoke about MCT oil use for boosting threshold riding. I shall try it also, do not know how?

 

Why is my race HR average gone up?

Threshold riding is not up to speed --

 

The info on thread lately made me think.. any comments welcome ...

[Marge]

#&$^%*%

 

Update: 19 days....no weight loss, just saw on the tdf website that I (at 1.53m short) weigh the same as the cyclist Quintana! Very depressing me thinks! I keep a food diary, I changed my eating habits from 5-6 small meals (was hungry all the time) to 3 LCHF meals (maybe not HF enough...?), I eat my salad when everyone have hamburgers and chips….

 

On the up side, now I’m only eating when I'm hungry which feels great, not that obsessive about food anymore. I tried fasting last weekend on the day that I didn’t cycle, but only managed to skip breakfast and lunch though .

 

So, decided not to enter Die Burger MTB 60km race on 3 August seeing that I feel so crap on the bike lately, can't keep up with anyone, there is just nothing in my legs (although a very low HR, but the legs can’t even raise my HR!). I even asked my personal trainer to do only one gym session a week instead of 2 so that I can get more time on the bike (I thought maybe it is the weight training that makes my legs feel so heavy.)

 

Sunday I start with DC training with the team, I’m afraid I will be exiled if they see how slow I’m on the bike! But luckily it won’t be more than a 3 hour ride and it won’t be at a fast past.

 

So usual routine for long rides would have been: futurelife or oats before the ride, a jungle oat bar, banana and some enerjellies during, with one bottle of water and one with 32GI.

New routine: bacon and eggs before, water and a few almonds during, and maybe a maxilean low carb bar if I really get hungry.

 

Should I try to continue with the new routine on Sunday??

[jcza]

I fully agree with htone, read about fuelling during endurance events and understand what happens. Remember that solid food takes way longer to become available as energy than liquids and your body may not even have enough left to convert the solid into energy.

 

Training water only and drink when you're thirsty and not to a predetermined plan. You'll be surprised with the results. I accidently discovered during Joberg 2C that I was able to ride with 1 x bottle only after breaking my bottle cage. I will be replcaing it as we go into summer and temperatures soar but just because it was there I consumed it.

 

In my opinion - if you need fuel when racing then high carb is preferable over low carb.

 

HR - I find that the fitter I am the higher my HR (obviously depending on the effort) but I recover very rapidly. It is not unusual for me to see ave HR of 160 or more for 3 to 4 hours of racing.