LCHF - Low Carb High Fat Diet Ver 2

[Roux 1]

I'd like to tune up the fat burning engine more. ---- How long have been on this training principal?

My reason for asking is that I've been training on Maffetone's for 15 weeks. Only time I went above Max Aerobic threshold was in 3 races and twice in training. No carbs even in above threshold zone i.e. 140bpm plus...not feeling strong when in race zone, otherwise I can carry on and on cycling. Very interesting info in the VO2MAx and RER test.

Something to consider doing..

[jcza]

..

Edited August 20, 2013 by jcza

[jcza]

Snytjie that result is very interesting. What does one ask for when going for such a test and who performs the test? I'd like to have it done. I'm very interested in measuring my HR as I seem to go very high for very long. Below is the zone analysis from 53km MTB race completed in 2:22 on half a bottle (half coke/half water....yes yes I know). I was tired afterwards but didn't feel close to bonking despite not eating anything or taking any GU.

Edited August 20, 2013 by jcza

[Mikesa9]

I recently mailed him on cholesterol and blood sugar and he gave me a detailed response. Mail him!

I used Twitter to get hold of him and he responded fully. He's a good guy.

[Helpmytrap]

From the ASG how to carbo load thread.

 

Each morning drink 750ml of EnergySource. Wait for 30 minutes, then jump onto your bike and warm up easy for 10 minutes. Follow that warm up with a single 3 minute sprint. You should aim for a good lactic acid build-up during the sprint, which will encourage your body to store carbohydrate.

You should then aim to consume 10 grams of carbohydrate per kg body weight during the day. For a 70kg rider that would be 700 grams of carbohydrate per day.

[P.A.K.]

From the ASG how to carbo load thread.

 

Each morning drink 750ml of EnergySource. Wait for 30 minutes, then jump onto your bike and warm up easy for 10 minutes. Follow that warm up with a single 3 minute sprint. You should aim for a good lactic acid build-up during the sprint, which will encourage your body to store carbohydrate.

You should then aim to consume 10 grams of carbohydrate per kg body weight during the day. For a 70kg rider that would be 700 grams of carbohydrate per day.

And I should have 1kg of carbs for the day

But, does it make you fa(s)t?

[jcza]

From the ASG how to carbo load thread.

 

Each morning drink 750ml of EnergySource. Wait for 30 minutes, then jump onto your bike and warm up easy for 10 minutes. Follow that warm up with a single 3 minute sprint. You should aim for a good lactic acid build-up during the sprint, which will encourage your body to store carbohydrate.

You should then aim to consume 10 grams of carbohydrate per kg body weight during the day. For a 70kg rider that would be 700 grams of carbohydrate per day.

 

No thanks

[Snytjie]

From the ASG how to carbo load thread.

 

Each morning drink 750ml of EnergySource. Wait for 30 minutes, then jump onto your bike and warm up easy for 10 minutes. Follow that warm up with a single 3 minute sprint. You should aim for a good lactic acid build-up during the sprint, which will encourage your body to store carbohydrate.

You should then aim to consume 10 grams of carbohydrate per kg body weight during the day. For a 70kg rider that would be 700 grams of carbohydrate per day.

 

Good heavens...

[Snytjie]

I'd like to tune up the fat burning engine more. ---- How long have been on this training principal?

My reason for asking is that I've been training on Maffetone's for 15 weeks. Only time I went above Max Aerobic threshold was in 3 races and twice in training. No carbs even in above threshold zone i.e. 140bpm plus...not feeling strong when in race zone, otherwise I can carry on and on cycling. Very interesting info in the VO2MAx and RER test.

Something to consider doing..

 

Hi,

 

I think it is to be expected that you won't feel strong above threshold pace. If your machine works anything like mine, the RER results show the need for glucose. I don't think the adaptation or challenge LCHF puts to your body is to burn more fat during high intensity training: it is to produce more glucose through gluconeogenesis. To me it seems that your body needs time to adjust itself to do that. HIT needs glucose, no matter what your diet is. If you do not digest the carbs/glucose, your body must make it.

 

I've been following Maffetone for about a year now. It appealed strongly to me as I was new to serious training and without great natural athletic ability. The method allowed me to learn about my potential without risking overtraining and/or injury. Without something like this which is backed up by decades of experience and success, I would always have doubted whether I'm going strong/fast enough and would probably have caused damage by now. I have to say that Noakes' Lore of Running helped a lot too as he suggests new runners spend six months of walking/jogging before trying adding kms. I would've buggered that up completely.

 

I've seen only slow improvement in aerobic threshold ability during the first base period (4 months). Following on that I had ten weeks of above threshold training and two races. I returned to base building, and will finish four months of it next week. During the the last period I saw a substantial increase in average cycling speed (+3km/h over standard 65km course) at threshold and a noticeable increase in running speed (-30s/km). Mark Allen advises on his website to follow Maffetone, but to do a period of HIT if your aerobic threshold speed plateau. I think that is why I saw a substantial increase over the past three months. I'm hoping that the next six months of HIT and racing would help along the next base building phase again. I've never had an injury or pain when racing or training hard/long. I am admittedly focused on gaining experience rather than killing myself. I hope that the Maff's way helped to build me a physiological base from where I can reach my athletic potential.

 

So far so good!

[Helpmytrap]

Sorry guys, from tomorrow I'll no longer be LCHF. Will be switching over to Paleo. Will still have my fat shake in the morning and will try and maintain a 15/42/42 P/C/F% but will play around to see what works best.

 

For the type of training and racing I do, I will always burn a higher percentage glucose than fat. Probably because I don't know how to ride slow. So this is more a case of switching over to a more viable lifestyle that will meet my specific needs.

[Snytjie]

Snytjie that result is very interesting. What does one ask for when going for such a test and who performs the test? I'd like to have it done. I'm very interested in measuring my HR as I seem to go very high for very long. Below is the zone analysis from 53km MTB race completed in 2:22 on half a bottle (half coke/half water....yes yes I know). I was tired afterwards but didn't feel close to bonking despite not eating anything or taking any GU.

 

Heita,

 

I enquired from the Sport Science Institute here in CT about such testing. They offer it to the public, although only as a cycling test. You bring your bike, and they combine a VOmax test with RER (gas analysis of your breath by means of a mask). Apparently it costs R800. I was lucky in that UCT's division at the SSI was running a data gathering project on VOmax and RER of a general sample of people of varying abilities and fitness. The SSI referred me to them and I got it for free (running test). I would've liked a longer test than the 13 mins I lasted, but there is probably some valid reason why they force you so much. I saw in Maffetone's book Mike Pigg lasted only 11 min which made me feel better. These things are obviously designed to crack you rather quick.

 

I wouldn't know where to look for it in Gauteng. Probably Tuks or some university. You can call the SSISA and ask for Alex Joiner. He does the regular testing down here: maybe he knows who does it in GP?

 

I wouldn't know how to speak meaningfully about how much anyone else than myself can do on water or little carbs. It would be great for you as a serious athlete to do such a test as it gives great info. There are however still questions which only hard, long races will answer. For example: how well is your body adapted to gluconeogenesis? Take Peter Attia for example: he does some serious **** with only 30g of superstarch as supplement .His body knows how to make glucose, that's for sure! It is possible that you can do that HIT because your body is already well adapted to making glucose. I think it would happen gradually, despite the fact that you also use carbs during races. I doubt that you take in enough to fulfil the deficit that a long race or multi-stage would induce? If you can go for 4-6 hours, or for a few stages without bonking, then the answer is that your body is successfully making enough glucose (I think!).

Edited August 20, 2013 by Snytjie

[nochain]

Sorry guys, from tomorrow I'll no longer be LCHF. Will be switching over to Paleo. Will still have my fat shake in the morning and will try and maintain a 15/42/42 P/C/F% but will play around to see what works best.

 

For the type of training and racing I do, I will always burn a higher percentage glucose than fat. Probably because I don't know how to ride slow. So this is more a case of switching over to a more viable lifestyle that will meet my specific needs.

How many grams of carbs would that give you?My weekly training hours is very close to what you do and weight is close too...I weight 63 so interested to see what you would get from that ratio.

I do the Paleo thing and stick to about 80 grams a day,100 if you include my enerydrink I take after training.Sometimes less that 80 grams.

I do up my intake the day before a race to about 150grams.

[Helpmytrap]

How many grams of carbs would that give you?My weekly training hours is very close to what you do and weight is close too...I weight 63 so interested to see what you would get from that ratio.

I do the Paleo thing and stick to about 80 grams a day,100 if you include my enerydrink I take after training.Sometimes less that 80 grams.

I do up my intake the day before a race to about 150grams.

Okay I actually calculated that now. 40% carbs is 198g!!

So I'm now looking at 20-25% carbs which is 100-125g and then fat will be 60%.

[nochain]

Okay I actually calculated that now. 40% carbs is 198g!!

So I'm now looking at 20-25% carbs which is 100-125g and then fat will be 60%.

Thanks...yes 100grams seem to work on heavy interval type training for me.Are you working on about 120grams of protein a day?

[htone]

Sorry guys, from tomorrow I'll no longer be LCHF. Will be switching over to Paleo. Will still have my fat shake in the morning and will try and maintain a 15/42/42 P/C/F% but will play around to see what works best.

 

For the type of training and racing I do, I will always burn a higher percentage glucose than fat. Probably because I don't know how to ride slow. So this is more a case of switching over to a more viable lifestyle that will meet my specific needs.

HMT - please keep the contributions coming - I would also be very interested to see what your BG does at those ratios ? And don't be sorry, in my book that's still plenty LCHF !

[htone]

 

Okay I actually calculated that now. 40% carbs is 198g!!

So I'm now looking at 20-25% carbs which is 100-125g and then fat will be 60%.

 

Correct, I missed the ratios in my previous post, as I thought you had P & F at 42% each.... At around 200g of carbs you will be right back at Standard American Diet levels, with the concomitant issues...