CSA / PPA. The Heat is on

[mazambaan]

Nice one Java and I agree with DJR, certainly the message from a chat on radio RSG about ASA that I heard while I was travelling was that SASCOC is basically an ANC backed agency full of cadre types whose only aim was first, the best for themselves and second, the ANC agenda.

 

Certainly nothing to do with participants in whatever sporting code.

[Omar]

 

I think that is the the case with CSA and its government bosses – Dept of Sport/Recreation , LOTTO and SASCOC. We fail to understand that CSA is not an organisation representing the cyclist, but rather the ONLY government “elected” controlling body mandated to operate & control all and any facets of the sport of cycling. Much like an estate agent with a sole mandate that never expires !

 

 

if that's what you think then you are only on the periphery of the sport and do not have any idea how the sport of cycling is run. i'm sorry i'm not trying to belittle you.

the csa exco is elected by the provincial/regional delegates.

when ppa were in the csa they were part of the elections - the 1st chairman of csa was a ppa man.

[DJR]

if that's what you think then you are only on the periphery of the sport and do not have any idea how the sport of cycling is run. i'm sorry i'm not trying to belittle you.

the csa exco is elected by the provincial/regional delegates.

when ppa were in the csa they were part of the elections - the 1st chairman of csa was a ppa man.

 

How are the CSA "powers that be" made up?

 

1. How many board members in total?

2. How many appointed board members?

3. Who appoint those?

4. Can the appointed board members vote?

5. How many elected members?

6. Who elect those?

7. How many from each province?

8. Are the membership numbers of clubs taken into account in how many votes they have?

9. Are the membership numbers of the provinces taken into account in how many votes they have?

10. Must board members have a tangible link with cycling?

11. Are expert administrators / lawyers co-opted into the board?

12. Can those vote?

13. Are they paid a salary?

14. Who runs CSA on a day to day basis?

15. How are these people chosen?

16. Are they paid a salary?

 

Just some questions that came to mind in trying to figure out who CSA represents. Anyone to enlighten me?

[Brogue]

Rightly or wrongly it's all politics.

 

I equate CSA/SASCOC to the ANC, and PPA to the DA. The DA rules in the Western Cape, as does the PPA, whether CSA/SASCOC/ANC like it or not

[Java001]

if that's what you think then you are only on the periphery of the sport and do not have any idea how the sport of cycling is run. i'm sorry i'm not trying to belittle you.

the csa exco is elected by the provincial/regional delegates.

when ppa were in the csa they were part of the elections - the 1st chairman of csa was a ppa man.

 

No, you are not guilty of belittling me, maybe a bit guilty of not understanding

 

Below the guys on the current CSA letterhead:

 

William Newman (President), Mike Bradley (Vice President), Pieter Herbst (Financial Trustee),

 

George Corbett (Executive Member Gauteng), Heine De Jager (Executive Member Limpopo), Theo Viljoen (Executive Member Mpumalanga), Hendrik Wagener (Management Committee Member Road Cycling), George Stroebel (Executive Member Free State), Greg Stedman (Executive Member KwaZulu-Natal), Antoinette Harding (Executive Member Eastern Cape), Robert Thomas (Executive Member Northern Cape), Pieter Aucamp (Executive Member North West), Johan Smith (Management Committee Member Track), Brett Coates (Management Committee Member MTB), Margot Gerber (Management Committee Member BMX), Mike Burns (Management Committee Member Para) Ettienne Joubert (Associate Member USSA)

 

I understand that they get there via the provinces e.t.c. This is the small picture, I spoke about.

 

I am however suggesting that not a single one of these guys (or for that matter, all of them together!) ultimately have the ability to go against or dictate "government" policy handed down by DoSRSA, SASCOC & LOTTO as funding arm.

 

As examples: ( purely fictitious, of course)

1. SASCOC informs CSA they must reorganise cycling in 9 regions - even if it is the worst thing possible for cycling and every single member of EXCO & Management Committee was dead against it, it WILL happen.

2. SASCOC tells CSA that no matter what their goals are, they must align it to Governments and make sure they have a batch of riders ready for the 2016 Olympic Games. CSA might have been busy with a program to identify & train talent for the Tour De France, but they now have to abandon it and buy into the Olympic Games. This might not be what benefits riders as cycling in Europe might carry more prestige than the Olympics.

3. CSA inform SASCOC that it needs funding of R 54 000 per cyclist, for selected cyclists to attend the Junior World Champs in Scotland in August 2013. SASCOC informs CSA, LOTTO will only pay R 8000 per person. Parents must fund the balance.

 

The big picture seems to show that CSA is not owned by cyclists ! It is bit like having a house worth R 10 mill with an ABSA bond of R 9 mill, but you are telling your buddies its your house - total BS - IT'S ABSA'S HOUSE !!!!

Edited June 27, 2013 by Java001

[Headshot]

The big case is on the court roll 9 July 2013. My bet is not very much will happen then though...

[Omar]

No, you are not guilty of belittling me, maybe a bit guilty of not understanding

 

Below the guys on the current CSA letterhead:

 

William Newman (President), Mike Bradley (Vice President), Pieter Herbst (Financial Trustee),

 

George Corbett (Executive Member Gauteng), Heine De Jager (Executive Member Limpopo), Theo Viljoen (Executive Member Mpumalanga), Hendrik Wagener (Management Committee Member Road Cycling), George Stroebel (Executive Member Free State), Greg Stedman (Executive Member KwaZulu-Natal), Antoinette Harding (Executive Member Eastern Cape), Robert Thomas (Executive Member Northern Cape), Pieter Aucamp (Executive Member North West), Johan Smith (Management Committee Member Track), Brett Coates (Management Committee Member MTB), Margot Gerber (Management Committee Member BMX), Mike Burns (Management Committee Member Para) Ettienne Joubert (Associate Member USSA)

 

I understand that they get there via the provinces e.t.c. This is the small picture, I spoke about.

 

I am however suggesting that not a single one of these guys (or for that matter, all of them together!) ultimately have the ability to go against or dictate "government" policy handed down by DoSRSA, SASCOC & LOTTO as funding arm.

 

As examples: ( purely fictitious, of course)

1. SASCOC informs CSA they must reorganise cycling in 9 regions - even if it is the worst thing possible for cycling and every single member of EXCO & Management Committee was dead against it, it WILL happen. this is what happened and will happen in every sport.

2. SASCOC tells CSA that no matter what their goals are, they must align it to Governments and make sure they have a batch of riders ready for the 2016 Olympic Games. CSA might have been busy with a program to identify & train talent for the Tour De France, but they now have to abandon it and buy into the Olympic Games. This might not be what benefits riders as cycling in Europe might carry more prestige than the Olympics. CSA have a 20202 vision ie the 2020 olympics

3. CSA inform SASCOC that it needs funding of R 54 000 per cyclist, for selected cyclists to attend the Junior World Champs in Scotland in August 2013. SASCOC informs CSA, LOTTO will only pay R 8000 per person. Parents must fund the balance. exactly - this is what i believe happend, i know 2 of the youngsters who were selected for Glasgow. what parent has that kind of money?

 

The big picture seems to show that CSA is not owned by cyclists ! It is bit like having a house worth R 10 mill with an ABSA bond of R 9 mill, but you are telling your buddies its your house - total BS - IT'S ABSA'S HOUSE !!!!

 

it is owned by the cyclist but is fully bonded

i believe that there should be national squads especially for the juniors as they have 2 shots at worlds but how do you get them to world standard. u can't compete at worlds if you don't qualify - match sprint u need to ride 200 metres in a certain time - and the only way to get to world standard is to be based in europe + that takes money.

lets face it cycling is a cinderella sport and gov won't pour money into it.

but don't discount the level of knowledge that gov has of cycling , if i remember correctly the minister of sport rode the Argus and so have other gov officials

[Brogue]

it is owned by the cyclist but is fully bonded

 

i believe that there should be national squads especially for the juniors as they have 2 shots at worlds but how do you get them to world standard. u can't compete at worlds if you don't qualify - match sprint u need to ride 200 metres in a certain time - and the only way to get to world standard is to be based in europe + that takes money. Lets face it cycling is a cinderella sport and gov won't pour money into it but don't discount the level of knowledge that gov has of cycling , if i remember correctly the minister of sport rode the Argus and so have other gov officials

 

Govt can get knotted,"rrespective of it's "knowledge of cycling", hands off the PPA and the Western Cape. CSA should either shape up or ship out.

 

The big case is on the court roll 9 July 2013. My bet is not very much will happen then though...

 

PPA's court application is for a Declarator to determine the legal relationship between the parties. If all the papers have been filed there is no reason why the matter shouldn't proceed on the day. In the event the court finds the PPA do indeed have entrenched rights within the CSA constitution it will mean all actions taken by CSA against PPA are unlawful (i.e the disputed amended constitution). If however the court rules that PPA do not have these entrenched rights, then the CSA have acted correctly (which will be a crying shame for all leisure cyclists in SA, coz it vindicates bullying of independent voluntary associations by statutory bodies).

Edited July 1, 2013 by Brogue

[lone.*]

 

 

Govt can get knotted,"rrespective of it's "knowledge of cycling", hands off the PPA and the Western Cape. CSA should either shape up or ship out.

 

 

 

PPA's court application is for a Declarator to determine the legal relationship between the parties. If all the papers have been filed there is no reason why the matter shouldn't proceed on the day. In the event the court finds the PPA do indeed have entrenched rights within the CSA constitution it will mean all actions taken by CSA against PPA are unlawful (i.e the disputed amended constitution). If however the court rules that PPA do not have these entrenched rights, then the CSA have acted correctly (which will be a crying shame for all leisure cyclists in SA, coz it vindicates bullying of independent voluntary associations by statutory bodies).

Not quite right. How much bullying was done over the years by PPA? Will we really know? Do not fool yourselves, PPA is a big business with business partners and they make a lot of money.

 

Do they want preferential treatment? It is like paying your car license. Pay the amount due that the controlling body sets.

 

Do they have a monopoly in SA Cycling with their qualifying races, timing and seeding?

 

Is there unfair competition.

 

If you want to leisurely run you need a license. If you want to leisurely participate in a cycling race first get a license. "Betaal die Keiser wat hom toekom".

 

Why can the rest of the Pedal Power Associations not be formed again?

[lone.*]

I have an idea they might just lose this one. See how well all the top guys get paid see the fancy offices, etc. See how little CSA gets paid. 85% of CSA Staff volunteers.

[DJR]

I have an idea they might just lose this one. See how well all the top guys get paid see the fancy offices, etc. See how little CSA gets paid. 85% of CSA Staff volunteers.

 

What fancy PPA offices? Where? In the arse end of Mowbray? Have you even been there yourself? Because I have and I never saw any fancy offices.

 

Check the very open and transparent PPA financials to get all the financial info you could ever need. It'll tell you exactly where the money came from and where it goes to. Have you read it?

[Brogue]

Not quite right. How much bullying was done over the years by PPA? Will we really know? Do not fool yourselves, PPA is a big business with business partners and they make a lot of money.

 

Do they want preferential treatment? It is like paying your car license. Pay the amount due that the controlling body sets.

 

Do they have a monopoly in SA Cycling with their qualifying races, timing and seeding?

 

Is there unfair competition.

 

If you want to leisurely run you need a license. If you want to leisurely participate in a cycling race first get a license. "Betaal die Keiser wat hom toekom".

 

Why can the rest of the Pedal Power Associations not be formed again?

 

 

I have an idea they might just lose this one. See how well all the top guys get paid see the fancy offices, etc. See how little CSA gets paid. 85% of CSA Staff volunteers.

 

[Brogue]

Interesting article on PPA website, outlining the history of the PPA and the Cycle Tour, written by John Stegman:

 

Why every participant is timed, or ‘Back to the Cycle Tour’s roots’

 

The present discussions around whether or not all participants in the Pick n Pay Cape Argus Cycletour should register with CSA has prompted me think back to the very first event when we wrestled with this very same issue. My memory may well be a bit rusty, but fortunately I still have copies of the monthly newsletters from those days to draw on. (There’s much more to be said and I must get on with the book I’ve been meaning to write . . .) - By John Stegmann

 

WPPPA was founded in March 1977 after many months of background work. It recognised that clubs and organisations for competitive cycling had been in existence here for close on a century, and was thus founded to cater for recreational, commuter and touring cyclists countrywide. I was the founding Chairman and very much involved with the drawing up of the constitution.

 

Because very few cyclists were to be seen in those days, WPPPA’s first demonstration, later that year, was the Big Ride In to show the City Fathers that recreational and commuter cyclists existed. That was a good start, but Bill Mylrea saw the need for an event with far more of a challenge than riding down and up Adderley Street. His 250km idea shrunk to 100km as we thought of the difficulties and I volunteered to head a sub-committee to plan the new event. There would be a floating trophy for the winner, and other smaller awards, but no prize money. The essence of the exercise was to show that given beautiful car-free roads cyclists would appear, and this would justify the provision of bicycle paths.

 

Bill, Louis de Waal and I had given a lot of thought to that ‘network of bicycle paths‘ and we needed a big turnout for the Peninsula Marathon, as the Argus Cycle Tour was then called. Remember that apartheid rules applied to sport in those days and opening it to everyone was controversial. (SATV refused to cover it.)

 

ALL HUMAN POWERED VEHICLES

 

At that time I was intrigued by experiments in California. Fluid-dynamics professor Chester R Kyle and aeronautical engineer Jack Lambie had formed the International Human Powered Vehicle Association 1974 to research the design of bicycles such as those prescribed by UCI rules for racing. Of course UCI racing rules are intended to create standard conditions in order to find the best rider – not to find the best machine. IHPVA’s objective was to improve the vehicle, and inventors soon bettered, or could better, every UCI record. I was fascinated by the idea that the bicycle, already crowned by Scientific American as the most efficient machine, could be improved upon and I wanted South Africans to get involved in this new field of scientific endeavour. I therefore wrote the rules for our event to conform to the IHPVA philosophy that did not prescribe the machine but simply restricted power to human power.

 

REGISTERED RIDERS

 

I reasoned that we needed the registered riders to participate so that the event would be open to all and I wanted them to give our budding inventors a good idea of the performance they’d have to beat. Hugh Dale was adamant that SACF (as CSA was then known) rules prohibited its members from competing in events with non-registered riders. He would not accept the suggestion that all other riders acquire a blanket one day membership. After thinking about the problem I returned and had him agree to there being two separate groups riding the same course on the same day, starting 30 minutes apart.

 

Realising that if we let the registered riders go first we’d never see any of them again, I arranged for us go first. Some of us were passed before UCT and others probably held out to near the top of Edinbrough Drive. The Argus Cycle Tour was the first, and for decades thereafter the only, event in the world to successfully combine UCI and IHPVA rules.

 

THE FIRST TIMING SYSTEM

 

Whereas the SACF would put a number of stopwatches on 1st, 2nd and 3rd (everyone after that was an also-ran), we needed a method to establish the overall winner. To encourage novice riders to at least get to Simonstown, we hit on the idea of each rider having four tear-off tickets. Riders were to hand in one ticket at Simonstown, one at the top of Smitswinkel, one at Kommetjie and one at the finish in Camps Bay. Rondebosch Rotarians would write a time on each ticket and we’d somehow sort things out later. In this way we fetched up giving everyone a time and a place – and unwittingly created one of the best-liked features of the event.

 

OBJECTIVES

 

WPPPA newsletter #10, 20th January 1978, reminded members of the WPPPA objectives, to:-

• Provide a representative body for the furtherance of the interests of the cycling public.
  
• Improve conditions for recreational and commuter cycling. Promote cycling.
  
• Disseminate technical, touring, trade and topical information.
  
• Assist club members in arranging cycle tours and outings.
  
• Establish contact with similar organisations, or to affiliate with organisations of similar or like interests and objects.
  

As it happened, the registered riders thoroughly enjoyed the first Argus Cycle Tour and were keen to participate in the next event. Also, a fair number of amateurs were proud of their own fast times. In this way volunteers interested in competitive cycling gradually rose to positions of influence in the WPPPA. WPPPA forged ties with foreign racing clubs rather than institutions such as Sustrans in UK, which was founded at the same time as WPPPA and with very similar objectives.

 

After a couple of years, the WPPPA constitution was spruced up. The new version looked pretty similar to the original, with the same string of objectives. After another lapse of time I became aware that the string of objectives now included ‘the sport’, which was certainly never part of the original mission. With such a string of objectives and little hope of giving equal attention each, the volunteers doing the work naturally focused on aspects that appealed to them most. I had left the committee in 1979 to work on bicycle planning, after which I had to concentrate on earning a living.

 

BICYCLE PATHS

 

The constitution made no specific mention of bicycle planning so the Network of Bicycle Paths that was approved by Council in 1979 was neglected by WPPPA and by the City Engineer’s Department whose attention was on the 1982 Metropolitan Transport Plan for motor vehicles. The R330,000 funding set aside each year for three years was forfeited – an agonising loss personally, but more so for the City.

 

TROUBLE AND ‘CHEATING’

 

The registered riders were moved to pole position at the start of the second and subsequent Argus Cycle Tours. While the UCI+IHPVA rules remained, unconventional machines were considered problematic and started last. They became most problematic in 1984 when a young amateur rode a solo race from start to finish on a streamlined recumbent and crossed the line a little after registered rider Theuns Mulder, whom The Argus took to be the winner. Only later, when all the times were in, did we learn that Theuns had been beaten by two amateur tandems and was placed fifth as the overall winner, more than ten minutes faster than Theuns, was the young amateur! But instead of jubilation, amazement and interest in the machine and its rider for this historic achievement, there was trouble.

 

The registered riders ridiculed the youngster’s performance, claiming it was due to the machine and was cheating. Unless the rules were changed, they would no longer participate in the Argus Cycle Tour. Fortunately for them their wishes were given a sympathetic hearing by WPPPA. The riders of unconventional machines would be restricted to a single award, while more importance would henceforth be given to the winner under UCI rules for which a new big shield was acquired and prize money increased.

 

I served again on the committee to promote the concept of a bicycle path around Table Mountain. This project upset the chairman who said it was riding on the back of W3PA and that the Association would need to distance itself from it. To my mind this was exactly the kind of project WPPPA should tackle. While I am greatly impressed by the power and skill of professional cyclists, I would certainly not expect WPPPA to have anything to do with an event such as the Giro del Capo. I ended up by handing back the honorary life membership I’d been given and have promoted touring, recreational and commuter cycling elsewhere.

 

In recent times the PPA has returned to its original objectives of making the roads safe for ordinary cyclists and I was therefore happy to tackle the Cycletour again this year. My overwhelming impression of the Cape Argus Pick n Pay Cycle Tour is that it gives an enormous amount of pleasure to thousands of people, be they spectators, helpers or participants of every description – no matter who wins. As such it will hopefully continue doing what it does so well for decades to come.

 

I’d like to see PPA and CSA accept that individuals are free to participate in any or all of the many different kinds of cycling as they choose. I’d like to see CSA say a big ‘thank you’ to PPA for all that it has done for ‘the sport’ over many years and find a way for its members to participate in the Pick ‘n Pay Cape Argus Cycle Tour, should they so wish, like everyone else, without imposing their peculiar requirements on others. – John Stegmann

Edited July 1, 2013 by Brogue

['Dale]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Brogue you're funny!

:-D

[Brogue]

So the big showdown, scheduled for Tuesday 9th July turned into a damp squib. An insider friend took a look at the court file today, which was EMPTY. This indicates a legal ceasefire. Dates on the opposed role, dates are only available in November. .

 

We'll probably hear/see an announcement shortly that the two parties agreed to enter into negotiations again, or have reached a settlement. For my money PPA's sabre rattling achieved the twin goals of showing CSA it won't be bullied and forced them back to the table (at the very least).

 

PPA, jou doring!

Edited July 11, 2013 by Brogue

[kandui]

Come to the PPA AGM on the 2nd of September.

Venue: Canal Walk Auditorium

Time: 17:45pm for a start at 6:30pm.

 

We look forward to a strong attendance and a robust debate.