CSA / PPA. The Heat is on

[walkerr]

PPA is an autonomous business

 

Fixed that for you

Edited February 26, 2014 by walkerr

[slabs]

Fixed that for you

 

Was being kind to them...

['Dale]

The way the judgement has gone is unfortunate in my opinion. The social riders / players in any sport across the world subsidise the professional riders / players. It helps facilitate the transition between starting out as a social rider / player. The amount of young riders / players who have the potential to become professional riders / players, but not the financial means, will suffer in the end. This will result in cycling becoming more of an "elitist" sport and stunt the growth of it in the long run. You may argue that you are happy with being a social rider and don't feel you should be footing the bill for the professionals, but in the end, it’s the professionals that give cycling the "airtime" and attract more people to cycling. This results in more trails, better maintained trails etc. In short, fewer professionals equals less cyclists, equals less money being pushed into cycling, equals less trails and poor maintenance of the trails. Just to be clear, I am a social rider.

 

Very well considered post

 

This is what Mclean was essentially referring to.

[GoLefty!!]

You make it sound as if PPA = social, CSA = pro/amateur riding. But go look at the CSA constitution:

 

 

So to say that CSA has nothing to do with social riding is completely wrong. You may however argue that they are not doing enough for social riders. But since you are not a member of the CSA, what say do you have.

 

I hope I don't sound like I'm defending the CSA though. They probably could be doing a lot more all round. I just think your argument is based on an incorrect understanding.

 

Whats tands in their constitution has little relevance to their actual and planned activities. All that the statements in the constitution allows for is for them to move into that space if they so chose. it has little relevance to activities today.

[Patchelicious]

Whats tands in their constitution has little relevance to their actual and planned activities. All that the statements in the constitution allows for is for them to move into that space if they so chose. it has little relevance to activities today.

 

Are you talking about the CSA or RSA...... oh wait

[Stretch]

the fact of the matter is...forget about swimming pools and all that jazz...CSA still needs some income to grow the sport, to develop young riders, to allow professionals to compete internationally. Yes I realise that some don't get the nod to go overseas, or are given limited funds...but.....with no sanctioned events this little pittance will turn into nothing and that is detrimental to the sport. I for one am more than happy to pay my R75 ever year because of this..even if of R5 of that went to bettering the sport - at least something is going towards it

[slabs]

the fact of the matter is...forget about swimming pools and all that jazz...CSA still needs some income to grow the sport, to develop young riders, to allow professionals to compete internationally. Yes I realise that some don't get the nod to go overseas, or are given limited funds...but.....with no sanctioned events this little pittance will turn into nothing and that is detrimental to the sport. I for one am more than happy to pay my R75 ever year because of this..even if of R5 of that went to bettering the sport - at least something is going towards it

 

Yes, but they and their governing body also needs to prove that they can manage the funds in the best interest of the athletes and not the greedy administrators. Again PPA saw what was coming and did not like it...

 

Would it not be great to read that the administrators fly economy class and fund part of the ticket themselves and that the athletes are treated with the respect warranted?

[andydude]

the fact of the matter is...forget about swimming pools and all that jazz...CSA still needs some income to grow the sport, to develop young riders, to allow professionals to compete internationally. Yes I realise that some don't get the nod to go overseas, or are given limited funds...but.....with no sanctioned events this little pittance will turn into nothing and that is detrimental to the sport. I for one am more than happy to pay my R75 ever year because of this..even if of R5 of that went to bettering the sport - at least something is going towards it

 

Tongue in cheek, but would you also pay R75 directly to Zuma for Nkandla even though R5 might go to the general social welfare of the country? I'm not saying the CSA is corrupt and I'm not saying that they are not.

[Stretch]

Tongue in cheek, but would you also pay R75 directly to Zuma for Nkandla even though R5 might go to the general social welfare of the country? I'm not saying the CSA is corrupt and I'm not saying that they are not.

 

We do this every day of our lives with our taxes. As disgusting as it is their is corruption/wasteful expenditure everywhere, you just need to look at FIFA.

 

Could CSA curb costs? absolutely

Could we do without the politics of selection etc? Absolutely

Could we do without us funriders funding CSA? I dont think so

[GoLefty!!]

the fact of the matter is...forget about swimming pools and all that jazz...CSA still needs some income to grow the sport, to develop young riders, to allow professionals to compete internationally. Yes I realise that some don't get the nod to go overseas, or are given limited funds...but.....with no sanctioned events this little pittance will turn into nothing and that is detrimental to the sport. I for one am more than happy to pay my R75 ever year because of this..even if of R5 of that went to bettering the sport - at least something is going towards it

 

 

[Stretch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuvlgwIBb18

 

I dont quite get that..are you trying to say something?

 

verbalise what you would like to say as opposed to insinuating perception through the use of a campfire song

[carbon29er]

As a social rider, totally agree. It's sad also that it's hard to argue that young talent gets all the support it could from the CSA either, and some of that could be said to be down to inefficient and squandered funding as well as lack of funding. But having a disjoint and broken up approach with squabbling over money that ends up in different pots, isn't really benefitting cycling as a whole - or the promising youth who could one day represent SA.

 

I've never understood why there can't be a seamless model - my club membership fees include an amount that goes to a provinicial body, which in turn goes to a national body. In that, I get my fun ride day license included, but if I want a racing license then for sure I have to buy that extra. Also if I don't belong to a club, charge me a temporary day license .

 

But the bickering mess we have now, regardless of which side is right and wrong, is not helping our sport overall

 

The seamless model could work for CLUB riders, however what CSA tried to do was tax EVERY rider who went to an event. And you agree with this. The poor organiser has to pay CSA thousands to be able to run the event resulting in increases entry fees which lead to moaning about price increases and often drop off in numbers.

 

Cycling became the only sport taxed in this way. Could you imagine a rugby or soccer player having to PAY SARU to run onto the pitch.

 

PPA objected to this tax for recreational riders, the court agreed.

 

Out of interest, or not, PPA subsidizes every funride that records riders times to the tune of R20k on average. This is deemed to be a benefit offered to members of the PPA in return for their loyalty.

[DJR]

....................

Could CSA curb costs? absolutely

Could we do without the politics of selection etc? Absolutely

Could we do without us funriders funding CSA? I dont think so

 

I have to agree with you on this one.

 

Money to fund CSA will always be a hit and miss thing if they rely on Lotto / Dept, Sport contributions. That will make it near impossible for them to do long term planning and projects. Therefore they will be stuck in the same mode of running flash in the pan Tour of SA type things. Not good in the long run.

 

Long term strategic vision and super efficient admin is what is needed. (Somewhat like the PPA did, but that is besides the point here.) I think that if CSA can demonstrate that they can do the job, most recreational riders will not object to contributing to the betterment of the elites. Also, if they feel they get a little something in return themselves. A few good races, safer roads, it will help sweeten the deal?

 

So, how can this funding from funriders to elites happen? I see no other way as through the PPA. And that means that CSA will have to treat PPA fairly, allow them to do what they do best, perhaps even encourage them to branch into other parts of the country and not interfere and prescribe to them how to do something they have been doing for decades. In return, perhaps the PPA would be willing to come in from the cold? Provided of course that there is very serious oversight of how the money is used to further SA cycling.

[rudi-h]

Once again the opinions and positions of people boils down to how much disposable cash they have.

 

A rich oke may not care to spend an extra R500 per year on "day lisences", be it Running, Triathlon or Cycling races or whatever, irrespective of how it is used.

 

Okes that hardly manage the entry fees will care about it, even if 100% of it goes for a good cause.

 

The bottom line is that they are taxing the living shyte out of us middleclass people

 

I don't see why this is necessary to give somebody cash that doesn't actively improve my race experience.

 

I also don't see why its a big deal if the pro's don't race the same events that I do. I've never seen an amature riding the Paris Roubaix or the TDF, so don't know what the deal is in SA that pro's and amateurs need to ride the same races all the time.

[ccc2]

I think the whole point is that CSA is not outcome driven at all. I'll gladly contribute if I see them VISIBLY promoting safe cycling, have a REAL development programme, assist with other disciplines like XC, DH and track cycling by doing more than getting a local body to host their national champs for them and have a transparent way to select riders that have to represent our country.

 

The way they and SASCOC snubbed Cherise Stander for selection to go to London2012 smells like politics getting in the way of a deseved selection to me.

 

i have highlighted the above because the Csa does all of the above. it is impossible for the csa exco / commissions to organise events / champs as they are spread all over the rsa. csa office staff are just that office staff. so national champs are tendered out to the provinces

development programs are in place (i can vouch for the wp) on trac/road/mtb thru the clubs and regions. swd & Fstate have 2 youth festivals in the school holidays and the csa coaching comm has a talent id camp every year in december for u16 & juniors.

wp mtb cater for xc & dh

maybe you don't know this becos you don't belong to a csa affiliated club and if you do then take it up with your club, becos your club gets all the info. better still become a member of csa for only r75 pa

[ccc2]

The seamless model could work for CLUB riders, however what CSA tried to do was tax EVERY rider who went to an event. And you agree with this. The poor organiser has to pay CSA thousands to be able to run the event resulting in increases entry fees which lead to moaning about price increases and often drop off in numbers.

 

Cycling became the only sport taxed in this way. Could you imagine a rugby or soccer player having to PAY SARU to run onto the pitch.

 

PPA objected to this tax for recreational riders, the court agreed.

 

Out of interest, or not, PPA subsidizes every funride that records riders times to the tune of R20k on average. This is deemed to be a benefit offered to members of the PPA in return for their loyalty.

 

R6 per rider (and i didn't forget the noughts) every other organiser of races in rsa pay the levy & this includes the organisers of the winter league , lights by linea etc etc whose events are minute iro income generated when compared to events organised by ppa.

wrt other sports - they belong to their national body and they are taking part in games organised by their national body, cast your mind back to Stormers vs Saracens or Ajax vs Liverpool. both games outlawed by their respective sports national body.