Getting a Speeding fine 20m before a change in speed sign?

[nigelhicks]

hey guys and girls

 

Hopefully someone on here is wise in the ways of the traffic act and can help me out

 

The cops have installed a static camera at a set of traffic lights as you exit PMB bound for Durban, The camera is a speed camera as well as a jump the robot camera,

 

SO i have just got 2 fines in the post for 2 consecutive days where i was on my way home from work and doing 75 and 77 in a supposed 60km/h zone.

 

The issue is - as you go through the lights ... 20m down the road is an 80km/h sign, and you can see this in the picture that was attached to the fines ... what is the ruling in this regard???

 

Does anyone know?

I have heard that if you can see the sign then they cant nail you.

 

HELP

 

Thanks

Nige

[nigelhicks]

a google earth image of the intersection with the 80km/h signs shown about 20m down the road

 

The road after the intersection is an onramp to the freeway so it would not in my mind be deemed as an urban area. anymore

[brad890]

here we go this is what google turned up

 

http://carinsurance.arrivealive.co.za/where-should-mobile-speed-cameras-be-positioned.php

 

There is no legislation as such that specifies the minimum distance from a the commencement of a speed limit zone from which a speed measurement exercise may be set up however, the TCSP guidelines for prosecution using speed measurement equipment applies.

For your information, the acronym “TCSP” stands for “Technical Committee for Standards and Procedures” and South African case law “State v Snyman 2001 (1) SACR 354 (N)” has established that the “guidelines” are not merely a set of recommendations, but a required set of standards thatmust be followed.

Section 1.7 of the current TCSP Guidelines in use (2007) state that “No prosecution may be instituted where the speed measurement was taken within 300 metres of the commencement of the speed limit zone, except with permission from the Director of Public Prosecutions.” It is very important to note however:

1. The last part of this statement which says: “except with permission from the Director of Public Prosecutions”.

2. This does not mean that such a speed measurement may not be conducted within 300m of a speed limit sign.

3. This limitation applies to 300m from either side of the commencement of the speed limit zone.

[niterider]

The 80km/h limit would take effect at the sign. Up until the sign, the limit would still be 60km/h.

[Clinton - theCOW]

Couple factors come into play:

1. how were the fines issued? Did you sign for them in registered mail etc? If not, i'd say nothing and wait for the Summon's or some form of paper you need to sign for. TCSP Guidelines also state the offender needs to receive notification of the offence within 30 days of the offence. The main reason why posted fines can't be prosecuted.

 

2. if you signed for it, they can prosecute, then comes the 300m rule, i'd take a picture if possible of the 60 zone sign if you can & the 80km/h board, go see the prosecutor and show him the photos and ask if he will drop the case or proceed with prosecution? If you can, get a measurement from the board to the camera, really make it look like you've done your homework and willing to go to court to have it withdrawn. I'm not sure how the static camera comes into play since my offences which went to court were on mobile units and withdrawn due to this 300m point. Any savy lawyer might also push that 300m could be in any direction as the law does not state in the direction of travel etc.

 

I refuse to pay fines if they not dealt with properly since they don't follow their own laws. If you want the TCSP guidelines, PM me, i can email to you.

[nigelhicks]

thanks guys

 

Clint - i downloaded the TCSP guidleines now.

 

Yeah I will get fill measurements etc - will also check in there is a camera sign up as this is a new installation

 

Any other help will be cool too thanks guys

[Weight Weenie]

Rather donate the fine money to Choc

[Stretch]

Ha ha nige. I spotted that when it went up. It had been there for a couple of months now. I got stopped by a cop directly underneath an 80 sign coming out of ixopo. I told her I spotted the sign and was speeding up towards it (goes from 60 to 80 to 100 within about 200m)...she wanted to hear none of it and said that where I was trapped 80m from the 80 sign the speed was still 60 and I was doing 80....so I don't think you can win the argument. Wait for a registered letter as pmb traffic is less than useless

[Bobbo_SA]

KZN does not follow the same AARTO act so the registered mail thing is not a issue.

 

My standard assumption though is as per the TCSP guidelines, 300m either side of the sign is a no trapping zone (you need time to get up to speed and back down again), although they may have permission due to the intersection being so close.

 

Best bet for KZN would be to go to your local "friendly" public prosecutor and plead poverty, they still have the discretion to reduce it / scrap it (unlike us in the big smoke who have to follow some "AARTO" process that never works.

[Stretch]

KZN does not follow the same AARTO act so the registered mail thing is not a issue.

 

My standard assumption though is as per the TCSP guidelines, 300m either side of the sign is a no trapping zone (you need time to get up to speed and back down again), although they may have permission due to the intersection being so close.

 

Best bet for KZN would be to go to your local "friendly" public prosecutor and plead poverty, they still have the discretion to reduce it / scrap it (unlike us in the big smoke who have to follow some "AARTO" process that never works.

This had been put up for the sole reason of making money..there is no way they will reduce it....well I don't think so anyway

[Cassie]

Just ignore it! Until you get a summons - then you can use that arguement with the prosecutor...

should work to at least get you a reduction in fine...

[Longbarn Killer]

The husband of a work colleague is a Traffic Cop Supervisor. According to him, they are not allowed to trap within 300m of a Speed Sign, where the speed has reduced. I'm not sure if the same rules apply in gauteng, he is in PE.

[fabs]

hey guys and girls

 

Hopefully someone on here is wise in the ways of the traffic act and can help me out

 

The cops have installed a static camera at a set of traffic lights as you exit PMB bound for Durban, The camera is a speed camera as well as a jump the robot camera,

 

SO i have just got 2 fines in the post for 2 consecutive days where i was on my way home from work and doing 75 and 77 in a supposed 60km/h zone.

 

The issue is - as you go through the lights ... 20m down the road is an 80km/h sign, and you can see this in the picture that was attached to the fines ... what is the ruling in this regard???

 

Does anyone know?

I have heard that if you can see the sign then they cant nail you.

 

HELP

 

Thanks

Nige

 

Hi Nige.

 

Stop boasting.

How did they identify you?

Do you have numberplates on your bicycle?

[Nettie R]

You were technically still in the 60km/h zone, you sped up before you got to the increased zone. Pay up, why wait for a summons, road block, shitters to hit the fan.

A prosecutor will see your argument doesn't have merit. The 300m rule carries no weight in your case. Plead guilty, but ask for a reduced fine. Then pay up. Nasty trick from metro, though.

[Clinton - theCOW]

I disagree with you Fester.

 

The law fails to state direction and TCSP Guidelines 1.7 states "within 300m of the commencement", i don't believe they can can trap within 300m in any direction and that is what a good lawyer will argue.