27.5 inch Wheel - Advantages

[Showtime]

I can't see why Spez needs to change to 27.5 when the geometry on all their 29ers handle like a dream. Compared to all my 26ers (Giant Anthem, GT etc) my Epic just rides the technical stuff better and I'm only 1.7m. By the looks of things they have the longer travel segment sorted as well.

[Skott5]

Absolute rubbish.... I ride a small 29er, several in fact. I ride a small 650b and I have a small 26er as well. The 29er geo is actually great. Niner SIR9, with 470 carbon rigids.... super short chain and seat stays, really low slung top tube which is short enough to allow 808 bars on a 30mm stem without feeling like im falling over forwards. By shortening the wheel base one creates a slightly more manouverable beast... The head angle is super with the lack of sag and all the above make the bike super agile and very responsive.

 

I rode the Freedom Challenge on it this year and it was absolutely great.

 

I have several other small 29ers and with the right set up they are nimble, climb fantastically well and are absolutely NOT hampered by obscure geometry at all.... That my friendly folk is just excrement...

 

 

Oh, I am 1.76cm tall. I could happily ride a medium and have done but the small kicks its ass hands down.

 

Geometry is dependant on the type of riding you do. Racing snakes will feel comfortable on a bike with steep head angles, and they will climb well becuase you can get the weight over the front wheel.

It gets tricky when you want big wheels and a slack head angle - there is always a trade off.

[Eldron]

Must be because it was held here in SA

 

Well done Eldron - waiting to read your report.

 

Report is really short - bad day at the office. Had sweet FA in the legs and dilly dallied in the hurtbox for 2 laps before being pulled off on the 80% time rule.

 

Frustrating and horrible.

 

The weekend was, however, frikkin awesome. Good friends, Holla trails, world xco champs, great venue, awesome accommodation - whats not to like?

 

I'm back on Friday to watch the Elites play :-)

[Gringo]

Wow, quite a debate.

 

I personally think the 27.5's are a way of the future. Just like the 29ers have dominated the market up until now. But the market is always changing and you can never keep up with the changes. It all comes down to personal preference, what works for one person, doesn't work for another...

[Jewbacca]

Geometry is dependant on the type of riding you do. Racing snakes will feel comfortable on a bike with steep head angles, and they will climb well becuase you can get the weight over the front wheel.

It gets tricky when you want big wheels and a slack head angle - there is always a trade off.

 

Agreed Skott5, but saying that the geometry does not/cannot work is just silly.

 

Surely though a 29er allows one to ride a slightly steeper head angle as the size of the wheel/roll over allows one to get away with it and keep the bike responsive?

 

29ers allow one to run a fork with less travel (and are awesome rigid) because of just that. To ask for a slack headed 29er is dumbing down riding ability and also causing the 'handling' issues associated with it.

 

As bike companies produce bikes for those who are less skilled/experienced yet still want the kit, they are creating these issues to cater for said folk.... Its a cycle which inevitably wont be sold as nobody these days is prepared to earn their skills by TITS, by stretching their ability and accepting that to fall is not a disgrace but part of the learning curve.

 

So if you want a slack headed bike that handles well, get a 26er or a 650b but don't get a 29er and cry about its lack of handling....

 

Yes, there is a trade off, but understanding why things behave the way they do and what you are trading off for the angles and inches you want to ride are not commonly placed.

 

With all this suspension and gears and technology skill levels are dumbing down. People are writing cheques their skills cant cash and when it goes wrong or they aren't happy about a particular 'tough' route all hell breaks loose. Unfortunately those who can often afford said bikes and technology are also the ones less likely to be able to use them AND the ones who cry loudest as they are very much used to getting their own way...

 

Not across the board but like a lot of things, it only takes a few to ruin it for a lot.......

[Eldron]

Yeah. I know.

 

But a lot has to be said for marketing BS and our ability to swallow it all. And yes, in conjunction with good geometry, a niner will make a difference to the average joe by enabling that extra bit of rollover and "speed" over the flat sections. But to the pros? I dunno so much. Their power and skill is so equal and at the top of the echelon that the differences are made over the technical sections, not the extra 2% that it gives you on the flats.

 

Marathon - sure. 29er is KING there, and rightly so. There, endurance is key and that extra rollover efficiency adds up over the kilometres.

 

This is why I was quite surprised by the large number is 29ers. The Pmb XCO course is harsh. ~300m of climbing in 7.5km with a large number of rocks gardens, drop offs, dusty rooted climbs, tight switchbacks etc.

 

There are NO flat sections.

 

If I had a choice I probably would have ridden a 650B. I only have 1 race bike (a 29er) so thats what I used.

[Eldron]

Wow, quite a debate.

 

I personally think the 27.5's are a way of the future. Just like the 29ers have dominated the market up until now. But the market is always changing and you can never keep up with the changes. It all comes down to personal preference, what works for one person, doesn't work for another...

 

Not to be taken personally but....this kind of statement has to stop.

 

There is no single way of the future.

 

You pick you wheel size on terrain, rider height, riding style, XCO/XCM/DH, power, strengths, weaknesses etc.

 

What I don't understand is that we should be celebrating the choice of wheel sizes - instead we tell each other that OUR wheel size is right and THEIR wheel size is wrong. Thehub flippin sucks when it comes to being happy. Everybody wants to find the rotting underbelly of argument and throw it at each other.

 

Yes. I am having a bad day.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Not to be taken personally but....this kind of statement has to stop.

 

There is no single way of the future.

 

You pick you wheel size on terrain, rider height, riding style, XCO/XCM/DH, power, strengths, weaknesses etc.

 

What I don't understand is that we should be celebrating the choice of wheel sizes - instead we tell each other that OUR wheel size is right and THEIR wheel size is wrong. Thehub flippin sucks when it comes to being happy. Everybody wants to find the rotting underbelly of argument and throw it at each other.

 

Yes. I am having a bad day.

 

Bells. Here you go, Sir.

[sometime]

Absolute rubbish.... I ride a small 29er, several in fact. I ride a small 650b and I have a small 26er as well. The 29er geo is actually great. Niner SIR9, with 470 carbon rigids.... super short chain and seat stays, really low slung top tube which is short enough to allow 808 bars on a 30mm stem without feeling like im falling over forwards. By shortening the wheel base one creates a slightly more manouverable beast... The head angle is super with the lack of sag and all the above make the bike super agile and very responsive.

 

I rode the Freedom Challenge on it this year and it was absolutely great.

 

I have several other small 29ers and with the right set up they are nimble, climb fantastically well and are absolutely NOT hampered by obscure geometry at all.... That my friendly folk is just excrement...

 

 

Oh, I am 1.76cm tall. I could happily ride a medium and have done but the small kicks its ass hands down.

 

Wow you rode the Freedom Challenge - I guess that means you're qualified to call what I wrote above as 'absolute rubbish' and 'excrement'.

 

Chain stay lengths are the same no matter what the size of Niner frame you've got.

'Low slung top tube', 'Small Frame' and '29er' - pick any two. You only have to look at the bikes of pro's riding small 29er frames and see those inverted stems and even downsweep bars for proof of this.

To get the right top tube length on a small 29er frame you've got a problem with getting the big front wheel to clear the down tube and the rider's feet. Only way to do that is change the head angle and or seatpost angle and/or run a longer than ideal top tube i.e. you need to compromise.

 

So can you build a small 29er? Of course you can. Are there compromises involved - of course there are and a Google search of interviews with any of the technical staff of the mainstream manufacturers (who have forgotten more about bike geometry than the collective geometry knowledge of this forum) will confirm this.

 

Are these compromises applicable to small 27.5 and 26 inch bikes - no they're not but of course they themselves are subject to other compromises. So at he risk of stating the obvious ride what works best for you but don't blindly and ignorantly regard what you have as being perfect and free of compromise.

Edited August 28, 2013 by sometime

[Gen]

I am quietly just nodding my head over-here.

 

Will only say, yip.. what works for you, what you can afford and what you want to do with it.

 

Personally my 26 is just fine, yeah the 650B Zula is one hell of a sexy looking bike, but there is nothing wrong with my bike, and we have an understanding, if it treats me well I wont take a grinder to it!

[Jewbacca]

Wow you rode the Freedom Challenge - I guess that means you're qualified to call what I wrote above as 'absolute rubbish' and 'excrement'.

 

Chain stay lengths are the same no matter what the size of Niner frame you've got.

'Low slung top tube', 'Small Frame' and '29er' - pick any two. You only have to look at the bikes of pro's riding small 29er frames and see those inverted stems and even downsweep bars for proof of this.

To get the right top tube length on a small 29er frame you've got a problem with getting the big front wheel to clear the down tube and the rider's feet. Only way to do that is change the head angle and or seatpost angle and/or run a longer than ideal top tube i.e. you need to compromise.

 

So can you build a small 29er? Of course you can. Are there compromises involved - of course there are and a Google search of interviews with any of the technical staff of the mainstream manufacturers (who have forgotten more about bike geometry than the collective geometry knowledge of this forum) will confirm this.

 

Are these compromises applicable to small 27.5 and 26 inch bikes - no they're not but of course they themselves are subject to other compromises. So at he risk of stating the obvious ride what works best for you but don't blindly and ignorantly regard what you have as being perfect and free of compromise.

 

Never on a bike are you free from compromise... Merely stating that to state so assuredly (as was earlier in the thread) that the geometry on a small 29er can't/doesn't work is absolute rubbish... that is all

[Jewbacca]

Im also stirring the pot.... Its fun and on a day when a combination of this utterly foul weather and a bad night sleep are convincing me to abandon my bike and my running shoes and all efforts to venture outside or in fact even change out of my pajamas, I am enjoying this storm in a tea cup......

 

By the way, sometime, you actually confirmed just what I said with your last comment.... It can be done, ride what you like and what you're comfortable with AND, most importantly, don't blatantly and blindly regard your opinion (what you have)* as being right (without compromise)*...... *your words

 

So saying it doesn't/can't work surely is not following your own advice?

[Eldron]

Im also stirring the pot.... Its fun and on a day when a combination of this utterly foul weather and a bad night sleep are convincing me to abandon my bike and my running shoes and all efforts to venture outside or in fact even change out of my pajamas, I am enjoying this storm in a tea cup......

 

By the way, sometime, you actually confirmed just what I said with your last comment.... It can be done, ride what you like and what you're comfortable with AND, most importantly, don't blatantly and blindly regard your opinion (what you have)* as being right (without compromise)*...... *your words

 

So saying it doesn't/can't work surely is not following your own advice?

 

Dude - stop arguing - small 29ers - it can't be done:

 

http://www.bikeradar...ly-elite-30569/

 

And Willow of course:

 

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/pro-bike-willow-koerbers-subaru-trek-trek-superfly-elite?cid=OTC-RSS&attr=features

 

And that was waaaaay back in 2010 when they knew nothing about geometry.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Eldron

[Gringo]

Not to be taken personally but....this kind of statement has to stop.

 

There is no single way of the future.

 

You pick you wheel size on terrain, rider height, riding style, XCO/XCM/DH, power, strengths, weaknesses etc.

 

What I don't understand is that we should be celebrating the choice of wheel sizes - instead we tell each other that OUR wheel size is right and THEIR wheel size is wrong. Thehub flippin sucks when it comes to being happy. Everybody wants to find the rotting underbelly of argument and throw it at each other.

 

Yes. I am having a bad day.

 

Firstly, I said 'in my personal opinion' (Which I am entitled to use)

 

And secondly, I did state it is personal preference.

 

So best you read before you comment. Bad day... shame,haha.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Gringo

[Kranky]

Anyone else ever think that these wheel size debates are actually okes just confused/ justifying/ comparing their penis size?

 

And yes, my comment is just as useful to the world

Edited August 28, 2013 by Nick.

[Eldron]

 

 

Firstly, I said 'in my personal opinion' (Which I am entitled to use)

 

And secondly, I did state it is personal preference.

 

So best you read before you comment. Bad day... shame,haha.

 

Take offense much?