Ironman...not just about the refund, why not sub?

[pd2dk]

Hi, they say not to rant when you are upset, but this is a principle issue for me. This whole "you cannot get a refund or put a replacement athlete in when you are injured" thing of any race run by the Ironman people - I don't get it. So maybe the hubbers can explain it to a stupid roadie that dabbles a bit in tri's...

 

This is the e-mail I sent them regarding my wife's injuries, she is entered for the 5150 Ekurhuleni, but due to injuries cannot compete. She already mailed them and just got a "No"...oh and hope you recover soon" type of response.

 

Hi,

 

Please explain to me why a "reserve" may not use an entry of an injured athlete? I'm trying to understand what the big "problem" is?

 

My wife was hit by a taxi while on TT bike training for the 5150 in Ekurhuleni. Left Clavicle broken, right Clavilce dislocated from shoulder and ligaments torn. So even if she wants to she cannot compete.

 

I understand your policy regarding refunds etc. I know many guys take a chance that they don't want to compete anymore and try to get their money back. I also understand that there might be idiots that enter and then try to sell their entry for a profit. But what in a case like this? She really can't and we can provide x-rays and surgeons report, you can even inspect the injuries. I always thought sport is about principals, but it seems anything connected to Ironman is just about the money....

 

What I don't get is this, yes the refund would help. We don't have medical aid for rehab, just hospital plan and that did not even cover everything for surgery. R900 is three physio sessions in our town. Yes I understand the money has already been used for road closures, safety marshals etc. so I'm not trying to get the money, there is a guy that trains with us, just for training. He would love to do 5150, but entries too expensive. So yes he can do it in her place without even refunding us - just as long as the entry is used and money not wasted...(principles vs money....)

 

I know you have admin issues regarding replacements, but heck we live in the computer age it should not take more than 5 minutes to change an athlete?

 

Anyway as a TV add once said "Use it, don't use it"....I'm just learning something about your organization:"It is not about the sport....."

 

Regards,

 

P.

 

P.S. I did my first Ironman this year, I got the 800 spots left sms, and then the 400 left and was still thinking about it, but due to above I will not ever again enter anything connected to Ironman and I will tell everyone I meet. I know this means nothing to you as you don't care. The 400 spots is probably filled and you are happy, so one guy not entering and telling a few friends will not even ripple the pond...

Edited October 30, 2013 by pd2dk

[FanieFiets]

I with you on this. It doesnt make sense. If are not to 'sell' your entry you should be refunded at least 80% or fixed charge for the replacement. The only reason that I can see is that they event makes more money if someone requests a substitution.

 

Glad this wasnt a rant about the price.

Edited October 29, 2013 by FanieFiets

[JGR]

Where you aware of the policy at the time of entering? Did you agree to it?

 

This topic has been debated to death but here are my thoughts.

 

A no refund/cancellation policy stops people from entering on a whim and then just cancelling or walking out later making the race field rather small as you mentioned

 

Imagine if people had the option to get a refund a week before - that is not enough time to get more people to enter as some might not be fit and the race would suffer

 

I broke my ribs before 70.3 and got no refund on the entry and only 50% on the flight (which im sure they sold again for full price) so I feel your pain. Perhaps when the race is bigger or they have more staff the admin issues might be less.

 

Just my 2c

Edited October 29, 2013 by JGR

[Soxx]

I agree 100% - it's all about the money!

[Red Zone]

Oh dear here we go again, this has been covered exhaustively in another thread, go search for it.

[Ramrod]

Where you aware of the policy at the time of entering? Did you agree to it?

 

This topic has been debated to death but here are my thoughts.

 

A no refund/cancellation policy stops people from entering on a whim and then just cancelling or walking out later making the race field rather small as you mentioned

 

Imagine if people had the option to get a refund a week before - that is not enough time to get more people to enter as some might not be fit and the race would suffer

 

I broke my ribs before 70.3 and got no refund on the entry and only 50% on the flight (which im sure they sold again for full price) so I feel your pain. Perhaps when the race is bigger or they have more staff the admin issues might be less.

 

Just my 2c

you do have a point but this is based on a medical condition. She is physically unable to compete!!! I would suggest they do as in Sani whereby you may subsitute at a fee.

[JGR]

Oh dear here we go again, this has been covered exhaustively in another thread, go search for it.

Rather not - the other thread is about the race ect. Over these money issues as well.

[JGR]

you do have a point but this is based on a medical condition. She is physically unable to compete!!! I would suggest they do as in Sani whereby you may subsitute at a fee.

But then who determines what is a legitamte injury or someone try to get out of it because the didnt train. I dont think it is as simple as punching a few buttons. Imagine two weeks out frmo the race 30% of the field decides there is a sub option and they go and use it. That would be chaos

 

Its a slippery slope - then the next year people will complain then should be allowed to sub just because ...

 

its a touchy subject and I have lost an entry and partial flight and it was frustrating more so that I had trained hard and given up a lot to get into shape and not because I had lost some money. The fact that the process brought you to a place or fitness is probably worth the money alone.

[JGR]

you do have a point but this is based on a medical condition. She is physically unable to compete!!! I would suggest they do as in Sani whereby you may subsitute at a fee.

The fact they dont charge sub fee to make extra money would indicate its not about the money?

[fabes]

Where you aware of the policy at the time of entering? Did you agree to it?

 

This topic has been debated to death but here are my thoughts.

 

A no refund/cancellation policy stops people from entering on a whim and then just cancelling or walking out later making the race field rather small as you mentioned

 

Imagine if people had the option to get a refund a week before - that is not enough time to get more people to enter as some might not be fit and the race would suffer

 

I broke my ribs before 70.3 and got no refund on the entry and only 50% on the flight (which im sure they sold again for full price) so I feel your pain. Perhaps when the race is bigger or they have more staff the admin issues might be less.

 

Just my 2c

I agree with him, he is not after a refund. Yes he agreed to the refund policy but why don't IMSA implement a substitution policy. 1 x paid entry = 1 x slot into the race. I would do anything for a slot into the 70.3 in Jan but due to me having to pay for 2 people (my wife and myself) I had to wait a while for entering, we then got put on the waiting list and are like 400 odd on the list. Now I know of someone who wants to sell their entry for the asking price but I cannot substitute it into my name. He has to fill out a refund form, he then gets 25% back and they resell the entry to the next person on the list for the full price. So for that 1 slot they will be paid R 2975 (Worked out @ R 1700 an entry). That is a bit rough.

 

However I enjoy the brand in every other aspect. Each race you go to it is very well organised and it works well. I just think they should look into this

[fabes]

you do have a point but this is based on a medical condition. She is physically unable to compete!!! I would suggest they do as in Sani whereby you may subsitute at a fee.

Agree with you, and that fee doesn't have to be cheap. Make it a price that will make someone think twice about substituting but at least give them an option

[AndrewF]

I think people are far too quick to jump to ranting in these circumstances. Maybe sit down and considered what goes into organising an event like this... You're one person out of how many entrants? You interact as an individual to the administrate for events. It is NOT the same the other way around...

 

How many communications are these admins dealing with daily? When signing up and paying for an event of this nature, you agree to the terms and conditions they set. It is their event, not yours. They determine what they are prepared to do or not. That's up to them. Then they put those terms in writing for everyone to read and accept (or not accept).

 

I am sorry that your wife had an accident and is not able to compete. This is the nightmare we all dread when signing up and training for such an event, but life happens. Sorry to say, but it does. There are many things wrong in the world. Most, way worse than not being able to sub an entry for an event.

 

Rather spend your time and effort helping your wife recover and getting ready for the next one Life is to short to rant over such things (still learning this )

[Thug]

I was listening to Advocate Neville Mellville speaking about the CPA on 702 the other night and given the circumstances of your wife's injuries, I'm sure there refusal to refund falls foul of the Consumer Protection Act.

 

I would take the matter up with relevant authorities.

[pd2dk]

Please don't get me wrong, I don't have an issue with the fees, yes it is steep, but organizing the event definitely costs a bit. My issue is also not with the guys getting cold feet and now want's to quit and get their money back. Someone mentioned if 30% want's to sub...well I hope that there aren't so many taxi caused injuries! If you get cold feet you pay!

 

I just don't understand if you are injured, I'm not talking a cut or bruise - I'm talking she cannot lift her arms above her shoulders, has a plate in left shoulder, stitches are still in, so she can physically not take part. Why then is a sub not posible.

 

And yes we read the terms and conditions, but who can plan when to get hit by a taxi? If this happened while you can still get part of your refund to use for medical costs, this post will not exist, but this happened today two weeks ago. 15 Oct.

[sluiper]

Sorry to hear about your wife, but I for one am in complete agreement with their policy.

 

As soon as you start allowing subs/transfers, you're going to get people selling their entries at an inflated price. Nothing irritates me more than people scalping tickets to make money off someone else.

[pd2dk]

I think people are far too quick to jump to ranting in these circumstances. Maybe sit down and considered what goes into organising an event like this... You're one person out of how many entrants? You interact as an individual to the administrate for events. It is NOT the same the other way around...

 

How many communications are these admins dealing with daily? When signing up and paying for an event of this nature, you agree to the terms and conditions they set. It is their event, not yours. They determine what they are prepared to do or not. That's up to them. Then they put those terms in writing for everyone to read and accept (or not accept).

 

I am sorry that your wife had an accident and is not able to compete. This is the nightmare we all dread when signing up and training for such an event, but life happens. Sorry to say, but it does. There are many things wrong in the world. Most, way worse than not being able to sub an entry for an event.

 

Rather spend your time and effort helping your wife recover and getting ready for the next one Life is to short to rant over such things (still learning this )

 

Agreed, we're both past the ranting part, it happened two weeks ago, she's already well on rehab, this is not the point, I asked for a legitimate, logical explanation why subs are not possible in case of physical injury. Money is paid and spent on the event, don't have problem with that. Just need an explanation, not advice.