Ironman...not just about the refund, why not sub?

[fabes]

And I could present a psychiatric report that says I developed a fear of sharks... The point people are making, is that if you start making exceptions you open yourself up for chance takers. Rules are made to be fair to the majority, not the exception. Now STOP SHOUTING.

The majority are the 2200 people that pay to stand on the start line

[Tumbleweed]

Ran this past my mate, Wendy, quickly in a text exchange. The "reasonable" thing applies, but the CPA is vague on transfers. I guess the CPA isn't really geared towards this kinda thing.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Tumbleweed

[pd2dk]

And I could present a psychiatric report that says I developed a fear of sharks... The point people are making, is that if you start making exceptions you open yourself up for chance takers. Rules are made to be fair to the majority, not the exception. Now STOP SHOUTING.

 

...seems not to be an exception. I'm asking for a logical explanation. E.g. the entrants names goes on a stone tablet that takes 6 weeks to make and needs to be handed to the insurers. So two weeks before the race it is physically impossible to change the name and therefore the race cannot continue because it is not insured and the majority suffers...ok seems not so logical...

[Thug]

Ran this past my mate, Wendy, quickly in a text exchange. The "reasonable" thing applies, but the CPA is vague on transfers. I guess the CPA isn't really geared towards this kinda thing.

 

So because it's a grey area, lets screw the consumer.

[sluiper]

You didnt have your All Bran this morning did you? We are not talking about a simple visit to the GP and a doctors note. SHE HAS XRAYS TO PROVE HER INJURY AND HAS HAD SURGERY TO THE AFFECTED AREA TOO. SHE COULD PROBABLY PRESENT A SURGEONS REPORT AS WELL!

 

Yes, yes, I saw all that, no need to shout. I could provide x-rays too, if required, but the surgeon's report would be hard to get hold of for less than R500.

 

Really, my contact is pretty reasonable. Let me know if any of you guys need to take some time off work or something.

Edited October 29, 2013 by sluiper

[Garfield2010]

I have not read through this whole thread but I would like to put the question the other way...

 

Lets say I get injured in early Jan. I call IM and they say sorry the cut off date for the partial (20%) refund or whatever have gone so I lose my R4250 or whatever it was. Late entries or the waiting list however is still active. Do they now offer another athlete to compete as my slot has now opened up?

 

If so then its harsh not to refund anything at all.

 

I agree.... if entries are either sold out or full, allow an athlete withdrawing to find a sub if he can, ask an admin fee and replace him.... It should really not be that big an issue....

[Tumbleweed]

So because it's a grey area, lets screw the consumer.

 

Ja, sounds like it. Becomes a bit "greyer" when you have an event you have an event you have to qualify to enter?

[pd2dk]

Thanks Hubbers, this is very therapeutic. Enjoying the civilized (ok mostly) debate! This bad experience taught me about choices. She chose to enter and abide by their rules like anyone would and be fine with it so long as all goes to plan. Then the taxi appeared and chose to turn right into our path. She survived, but her sport has been dealt a blow - she is actually a swimmer dabbling in tri's. Shoulders are relatively important for competitive swimming.

 

I chose to post this "rant" on the hub, to see if I'm being a stupid idiot that just wants to change the system because it failed us. You guys chose your responses, some for, some against. So in the end it will just be great if this helps me to choose more carefully.

 

So I'm choosing to search for races/events etc. that has some feeling of "right and wrong" (good sporting principles) and being naive and believing people (organizers) can make their choices not based on small print no-one ever reads but based on principles.

 

Enjoy sport and please, please watch out for taxi's - they really choose not to think about anyone else! The driver told the police that he saw us, but thought we were still far. So he chose not to wait 5 sec's because he is in a hurry. Everyone always talks about gifts in life, TIME is still the best gift!....o yes not the magazine...

[JGR]

I have not read through this whole thread but I would like to put the question the other way...

 

Lets say I get injured in early Jan. I call IM and they say sorry the cut off date for the partial (20%) refund or whatever have gone so I lose my R4250 or whatever it was. Late entries or the waiting list however is still active. Do they now offer another athlete to compete as my slot has now opened up?

 

If so then its harsh not to refund anything at all.

 

I agree.... if entries are either sold out or full, allow an athlete withdrawing to find a sub if he can, ask an admin fee and replace him.... It should really not be that big an issue....

...seems not to be an exception. I'm asking for a logical explanation. E.g. the entrants names goes on a stone tablet that takes 6 weeks to make and needs to be handed to the insurers. So two weeks before the race it is physically impossible to change the name and therefore the race cannot continue because it is not insured and the majority suffers...ok seems not so logical...

Logical to you and I might not make business sense. Anyone could make a suggestion that would improve a business - lets say banking. Im sure we would like it to be quicker and easier but FICA ect are at play. We dont know the full reason for not allowing subs from 6 weeks out - might be shirts were ordered in bulk, insurance for the event and names of entrants had been underwritten, who knows.

[fabes]

Yeah anyway I will continue to support Ironman and think they do a fantastic job. However I just think that this needs to be looked at if possible

[JGR]

Yeah anyway I will continue to support Ironman and think they do a fantastic job. However I just think that this needs to be looked at if possible

I think it will be - a few years ago there was no policy. I think now that it is so popular they no thet wont be left empty handed

[Azi]

I think if an event is sold out then there should be a substitution fee charged if a replacement can be found. In previous years when IM was never sold out then I think it might have been possible to defend the no-refund rule.

 

Lacking empathy towards your customers however is never good business sense.

[Garfield2010]

Logical to you and I might not make business sense. Anyone could make a suggestion that would improve a business - lets say banking. Im sure we would like it to be quicker and easier but FICA ect are at play. We dont know the full reason for not allowing subs from 6 weeks out - might be shirts were ordered in bulk, insurance for the event and names of entrants had been underwritten, who knows.

 

Insurance will be per number of athletes so that doesn't matter. A shirt doesn't cost R4,250. Anyways with the amount of non-finishers there will be plenty left of all sizes. Admin fee? To change a name? They only print the stickers the week before...

 

I don't think this justifies not refunding any amount.

 

Agree that if the event is sold out then subs should be allowed. Ask a admin fee if you must. I mean you have already made your money. Why not refund people but then accept the full entry of others?

 

If I do get injured I wont even tell them... Why? SO they cant quickly put another guy in my place and make another R4,250 (cause I guarantee you they will).

Edited October 29, 2013 by Garfield2010

[dracs]

I think if an event is sold out then there should be a substitution fee charged if a replacement can be found. In previous years when IM was never sold out then I think it might have been possible to defend the no-refund rule.

 

Lacking empathy towards your customers however is never good business sense.

Bingo, at this point their business model is a slam dunk. All they need to do now is retain the enourmous goodwill they have from the majority of those supporting their events. A re-think on the refund policy would go a long way towards this in the medium and long term.

[fabes]

Insurance will be per number of athletes so that doesn't matter. A shirt doesn't cost R4,250. Anyways with the amount of non-finishers there will be plenty left of all sizes. Admin fee? To change a name? They only print the stickers the week before...

 

I don't think this justifies not refunding any amount.

 

Agree that if the event is sold out then subs should be allowed. Ask a admin fee if you must. I mean you have already made your money. Why not refund people but then accept the full entry of others?

 

If I do get injured I wont even tell them... Why? SO they cant quickly put another guy in my place and make another R4,250 (cause I guarantee you they will).

To be honest if I entered late I wouldn't even care about a shirt either, I would just want that entry. So in the policy they can state that a shirt size cannot be changed after a certain date.

[JGR]

I think if an event is sold out then there should be a substitution fee charged if a replacement can be found. In previous years when IM was never sold out then I think it might have been possible to defend the no-refund rule.

 

Lacking empathy towards your customers however is never good business sense.

This is the first time its been sold out - perhaps it was not expected. I also dont see it as lacking empathy as there is a policy in place - it just doesnt last until the hour before the race.

 

Ive lost a full entry due to an injury, it sucked, more than losing the money so I can speak from a place of knowledge. I didnt feel they lacked empathy. It was an accident and would be unfair to hold them liable.

Edited October 29, 2013 by JGR