Lucky Luke. Posted November 17, 2013 Share Search the net for videos showing cyclists being hit by vehicles that ride against the traffic flow and I guarantee you that for each video that you find, I'll find +100 videos showing vehicles riding into/over cyclists that follow the traffic flow. And to help you on your way..https://www.google.c... by car youtube This could be down to the fact that the vast majority of cyclists are not riding on the wrong side of the road. If you do choose to ride there, I would definitely leave the kids at home, make sure your life insurance premiums are paid up, and prepare to have your username changed posthumously to 2dclaude. Lexx and Capricorn 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Yoda Posted November 17, 2013 Share Now I think you are just very cleverly avoiding every argument I have made above, but ok.. I'll happily oblige * Yes, there would be theoretical scenarios where riding against the traffic could help you avoid an accident. Why only "theoretical" and not "probable" scenarios and why "could" instead of "would"? Are you telling me that there's no way that a cyclist riding against the traffic flow would avoid being hit by a vehicle? The way you put it, it sounds as if a cyclist would have no chance of saving himself because all scenarios which "could" possibly save him are "theoretical" and not "probable". Sorry but I've got to disagree with that. * I can also give you scenarios where not wearing a seatbelt saved someones life in a fatal car crash , or not stopping at a red robot help you avoid a potential hijacking. But do these examples make compelling reasons for never wearing seatbelts or never stopping at red robots? No, because you also need to look at the problems you create when making these choices. And what happened with comparing apples with apples? The law also states that you can't just go around shooting someone that trespasses your property yet most people would do this without hesitation if and when they feel threatened. Would you like to discuss this as well or should we stick to the topic? * You are only looking at the "benefits" of riding against the traffic for you as a cyclist while completely ignoring the problems it creates for other road users. Wrong again, I've agreed with some members which do not agree with riding against the traffic flow. How about you do yourself a favour and hit the back button a few times and start reading this thread from the beginning. * Again, there are a number of very valid problems with riding on the wrong side of the road pointed out on this thread which you simply choose to ignore. Agree and disagree (and in this order), above reply applies here as well.. * Interesting that you started this thread with a mini-rant against taxi drivers. Imo these okes are prime examples of road users who basically ignore traffic traffic laws when it doesn't suit them and apply their own judgement to each circumstance and scenario accordingly - depending on how they think is the best way to drive. I'm not sure I follow, are you simply expressing your feelings for taxi drivers or are you expecting a reply (I'm not being sarcastic..)? * imo telling cyclists to be your own judge of when to apply road rules or not is even worse than all cyclists riding on the wrong side of the road. Again, no one is telling anyone to do anything that they don't want to. You need to understand this, it's a thread with a topic/question/poll with intent of seeing what both sides have to say. Nothing more, nothing less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexx Posted November 17, 2013 Share This debate is becoming Pointless. It will never end.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Yoda Posted November 17, 2013 Share How is it even possible to negotiate an intersection while riding against traffic?I almost hit a guy the other day on my road riding the wrong way, the car in front of me pulled out to avoid him and I had to do the same and in much less time/distance than had he been riding in the correct direction.I get what you're saying and yes, that would likely cause more problems for both parties. However, I've said it a few times that we don't do road riding and the only times that we need to go onto the road is to either cross it or to ride a km or 2 on a road with almost no traffic, no busy intersections (at all) and more than enough space to move further out right if need be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Yoda Posted November 17, 2013 Share Now I haven't made the effort to google it, but yes I would actually expect that 1 to 100 ratio. If only because the ratio of cyclists cycling against/with the traffic is 1 to 10,000. Which would make it a neat proof that its safer to cycle with the traffic Ok first of all you need to prove that the ratio is 1 to 10k and not 1-100 or 1-100k, do you have any proof of what the actual ratio is? And let's not forget that for this specific reason, I clearly mentioned (and underlined) the following; "And don't come with studies or other content that cannot be verified, I want video footage showing that there's a higher rate of accidents (percentage wise of course) with cyclists that travel against the traffic flow..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Yoda Posted November 17, 2013 Share This debate is becoming Pointless. It will never end..Debates are never pointless and will always exist as long as there's at least 2 humans on earth. Debates have been the source of eureka moments and solutions to great problems throughout the history on mankind, we simply could not live without debating the debatable. Off for a ride with my family, on the right-> left side of the road Edited November 17, 2013 by 3dclaude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skubarra Posted November 17, 2013 Share I'll happily oblige * Yes, there would be theoretical scenarios where riding against the traffic could help you avoid an accident. Why only "theoretical" and not "probable" scenarios and why "could" instead of "would"? Are you telling me that there's no way that a cyclist riding against the traffic flow would avoid being hit by a vehicle? The way you put it, it sounds as if a cyclist would have no chance of saving himself because all scenarios which "could" possibly save him are "theoretical" and not "probable". Sorry but I've got to disagree with that. Ok replace theoretical with probable if it makes you feel better, but that really isn't the point here. The point is, just because something might work in one scenario, does not mean it would work in general. And what happened with comparing apples with apples? The law also states that you can't just go around shooting someone that trespasses your property yet most people would do this without hesitation if and when they feel threatened. Would you like to discuss this as well or should we stick to the topic? Again I was only trying to explain the point I've highlighted above with some extra examples. But if this confuses the argument for you feel free to ignore it and only read the sentence i have highlighted. Wrong again, I've agreed with some members which do not agree with riding against the traffic flow. How about you do yourself a favour and hit the back button a few times and start reading this thread from the beginning. I don't recall seeing you agree with arguments against riding in the traffic other than agreeing that the impact of the crash would be bigger, but if you feel that there are lot of good arguments against riding in the traffic I won't debate you on that! t sure I follow, are you simply expressing your feelings for taxi drivers or are you expecting a reply (I'm not being sarcastic..)? I am simply saying that if you are advocating riding on the wrong side of the road then you are no better than the taxi drivers you despise so much, because both of you ignore traffic laws when it suits you. Ok first of all you need to prove that the ratio is 1 to 10k and not 1-100 or 1-100k, do you have any proof of what the actual ratio is? And let's not forget that for this specific reason, I clearly mentioned (and underlined) the following; "And don't come with studies or other content that cannot be verified, I want video footage showing that there's a higher rate of accidents (percentage wise of course) with cyclists that travel against the traffic flow..." No I don't have proof, it was said tongue in the cheek. Also the I'm pretty certain you also don't have proof to the contrary. Point is simply that you cannot take the ratio of Youtube videos against /with traffic and come to a conclusion without stating it in context of how many riders drive against/with the traffic. Surely that should be an obvious flaw in your argument? Not sure why the onus is on me to supply you with verified studies when you don't apply the same standards for your arguments. Capricorn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Dale Posted November 17, 2013 Share Its'a rabbit-hole, Skubarra.Get out, man. Capricorn, shaper and ThePubSA 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big H* Posted November 17, 2013 Share Seems to me 3dclaude has a death wish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capricorn Posted November 17, 2013 Share This could be down to the fact that the vast majority of cyclists are not riding on the wrong side of the road. If you do choose to ride there, I would definitely leave the kids at home, make sure your life insurance premiums are paid up, and prepare to have your username changed posthumously to 2dclaude. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skylark Posted November 17, 2013 Share I get what you're saying and yes, that would likely cause more problems for both parties. However, I've said it a few times that we don't do road riding and the only times that we need to go onto the road is to either cross it or to ride a km or 2 on a road with almost no traffic, no busy intersections (at all) and more than enough space to move further out right if need be. This statement above reiterates why I have no idea why Claude/ClintZN :) is even having this debate. 1 or 2km riding MTBs on roads with wide verges and barely any traffic and no busy intersections , you ride which ever direction you please. Like for f#%ksakes just use your common sense Claude. Those replying are assuming anyone going to the lengths Claude is to make his "point" must be riding quite some distance on the road and in busy built up urban areas where traffic is a real challenge unlike Claude who says : "the only times that we need to go onto the road is to either cross it or to ride a km or 2 on a road with almost no traffic, no busy intersections (at all) and more than enough space to move further out right if need be" Edited November 17, 2013 by Skylark Lucky Luke. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryvdM Posted November 17, 2013 Share Seems to me 3dclaude has a death wish? This type of comment is not on imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big H* Posted November 17, 2013 Share This type of comment is not on imo. Why? If he insists on his unsafe practice, please tell me how to describe it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryvdM Posted November 17, 2013 Share Why? If he insists on his unsafe practice, please tell me how to describe it? He have never insisted on riding against. He has said he always rides with, but is debating if riding against is safer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLuvsMtb Posted November 17, 2013 Share My boss at the first company I worked at was a victim of a cyclist riding on the wrong side of the road. He was training with his riding buddies cycling from our offices in Town after work from Green Point to Hout Bay. It was rather windy and a group coming from Hout bay decided that they'd rather cycle on the right hand side. My Boss just finished his pull and turned the corner just after 5 Apostles at the back. The group from the front suddenly appeared and the rest of my bosses group avoided contact. He was a second too late and clipped a wheel, got knocked by a car and almost lost his life. He was away from work for 6 months and had to fight for his life. To this day he has no peripheral vision and suffers from head aches and a bad back. For 6 months our business had to do without his very critical input and guidance and his family had to get by without him as well. To this day when I see a cyclist on the wrong side of the road I remember this selfish act by an inconsiderate bunch of knobs. They broke the law because the wind was less of a hassle closer to the mountain and almost killed an innocent man, that would probably have lead to 25 people losing their jobs and a family losing a father and a husband. When I see cyclists coming from the front I make myself and my bike as wide as possible to get these knobs to stop so that I can tell them to **** off to the other side of the road. I have zero tolerance for this as it not only pisses fellow cyclists off, but other road users as well. I have enough trouble trying to keep to the rules of the road and to stay alive while cycling on the road, I don't need these idiots making my life even more difficult. TopFuel, Capricorn and Big H* 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wessie12 Posted November 17, 2013 Share left side- right side- stupid idiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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