kandui Posted February 5, 2014 Share What I am trying to communicate is that it looks like nobody has formalised and publicised the voting procedure for the AGM.This is relevant since there is no formal club in place ,where only paid up members would be eligible to vote. Candidates in a club scenario ,up for election ,would need to be paid up members of the club.For example, if a guy decides to get on a plane from Joburg to attend the AGM on the 18th to cast his vote, you can't deny him his right to do so. You have no criteria in place to prevent him from voting.Geographical proximity to Tokai is not a valid criteria for exclusion.Everybody coming to the AGM has some sort of vested interest in Tokai and will expect to be able to vote. This thread is not being read by the bulk of the riders who have an interest in Tokai. They pitch up at the AGM knowing what?Do they know about the voting process?How to nominate candidates?Who are the candidates? is that list made public or will it only be available at the door?Do they even know who the current incumbents of Tokai Mtb are?What would they base their vote on? Has this been explained? I'm just asking. Pappa Bear and Hairy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted February 5, 2014 Share Guys, I think we need to be clear about this or it's gonna be a mess. As I understand, those nominated (sent to Amarider by the Monday) need to stand up and say their say/plans/etc at the AGM. Then everyone should vote for the people standing. If I, for example, give my proxy to Myles he will vote for the said nominee on the night of the AGM? Yeah. That could be a problem. Guys, I want this to be totally sold by the time the AGM comes, so that there's no confusion. Continue to send your nominations through, but as for the actual process of voting, we need to clarify that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted February 5, 2014 Share All important notes, Kandui. And no, the voting process has NOT been laid out fully. Candidates, as Thor has pointed out, should state their case for representing Tokai, in whatever way they can - the vast majority of riders in Tokai and surrounding areas has no idea who Vince or I are, or that Dan Dobinson is on the existing committee. That needs to be ironed out before the voting can commence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Buttox Posted February 5, 2014 Share Kandui - do you think you could be the equivalent of the IEC on this? You seem to be the far most qualified, with a helluva lot of inside knowledge of everything here. Given the nature of this thread, the position may be one of the most important components of this process. (Just thinking out loud - don't want to impose on you) Edited February 5, 2014 by Thor Buttox Blackbeard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranswurm Posted February 5, 2014 Share What I am trying to communicate is that it looks like nobody has formalised and publicised the voting procedure for the AGM.This is relevant since there is no formal club in place ,where only paid up members would be eligible to vote. Candidates in a club scenario ,up for election ,would need to be paid up members of the club.For example, if a guy decides to get on a plane from Joburg to attend the AGM on the 18th to cast his vote, you can't deny him his right to do so. You have no criteria in place to prevent him from voting.Geographical proximity to Tokai is not a valid criteria for exclusion.Everybody coming to the AGM has some sort of vested interest in Tokai and will expect to be able to vote. This thread is not being read by the bulk of the riders who have an interest in Tokai. They pitch up at the AGM knowing what?Do they know about the voting process?How to nominate candidates?Who are the candidates? is that list made public or will it only be available at the door?Do they even know who the current incumbents of Tokai Mtb are?What would they base their vote on? Has this been explained? I'm just asking. And you are asking all the right questions....anyone can pitch and nominate and voteThe basic fundamentals of an organisation/club are being ignored completely.I have been following this discussion closely and it is doomed The other basic misconception which most on the hub make is that it is the centre of cycling in South Africa which is furthest from the truth.The hub is a minority in cycling Edited February 5, 2014 by Kranswurm SpyDude 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pappa Bear Posted February 5, 2014 Share All important notes, Kandui. And no, the voting process has NOT been laid out fully. Candidates, as Thor has pointed out, should state their case for representing Tokai, in whatever way they can - the vast majority of riders in Tokai and surrounding areas has no idea who Vince or I are, or that Dan Dobinson is on the existing committee. That needs to be ironed out before the voting can commence. Who called the AGM, Vince? He needs to take ownership of it and let us all know how it will be handled. We cannot over write him as he is part of the process - he now need to finish what he started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porqui Posted February 5, 2014 Share As I understand it, it is usual to vote nominated persons to a committee but the committee usually determines who fills the different portfolios. The position of chair could maybe be voted for at the agm. Proxies could present a problem and could derail the overall purpose. An interested party should at least be someone who makes the effort of attending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Buttox Posted February 5, 2014 Share And you are asking all the right questions....anyone can pitch and nominate and voteThe basic fundamentals of an organisation/club are being ignored completely.I have been following this discussion closely and it is doomed The other basic misconception which most on the hub make is that it is the centre of cycling in South Africa which is furthest from the truth.The hub is a minority in cyclingI agree with you. Due process is a non-negotiable in these things. (I love the vision I got of the "The End is Nigh" with your "doomed" comment! ) Edited February 5, 2014 by Thor Buttox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pappa Bear Posted February 5, 2014 Share There is no club or rules at this stage. Somebody needs to put the AGM rules on paper, publish it here, leave it , get feedback by a given date and then adapt that as the "interim" rules. untill the cimitee and its workings are finalized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted February 5, 2014 Share I've just emailed Meurant, and will post the results and rules here. Someone who is still a member of the Tokai DH Riders group will need to post them on my behalf seeing as I cannot any more. Pappa Bear and Thor Buttox 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicoBoshoff Posted February 5, 2014 Share SANPARKS is there to protect our natural heritage for the use and enjoyment of all citizens. They have to balance competing demands of many different interest groups. By way of example, the Western Cape is internationally known as a Floral Kingdom. This is worth protecting in its own right, but has the added benefit of drawing worldwide interest and tourist money to the Western Cape as a whole. The fact that we can ride in Tokai, within certain guidelines, is something to be grateful for. I for one have no problem if a super-flowy, non-pedally DH line is lost if a plant, previously thought extinct, can re-establish itself. As this thread has shown, the regulations and guidelines are there to protect our national assets against the unauthorised actions of the puerile and the petulant. This statement is exactly why we are moving more and more to a centralised system where individual interests are chucked out the window. Does any single person on this forum think that we, as mountain bikers have any interest in reckless building and cutting of trails at the cost of natural habitat? There's a very good reason every one of us rides on mountains and not roads. Don't discredit people's ability to self-police and naturally do what is best for everyone, since what is good for my enjoyment will in all likelihood be good for yours and if some douche wants to destroy it why can't we deal with that then. I have a serious problem with preventative laws as they often just end up being thinly veiled products of a nanny mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Omega Man Posted February 5, 2014 Share Who called the AGM, Vince? He needs to take ownership of it and let us all know how it will be handled. We cannot over write him as he is part of the process - he now need to finish what he started.No. Muerant called the AGM. We (Johno, Vince, Richard, Myself) approached the forum and asked for an audience. We went to the meeting where we raised our concerns and Muerant called the AGM. Edited February 5, 2014 by Omega Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Buttox Posted February 5, 2014 Share This statement is exactly why we are moving more and more to a centralised system where individual interests are chucked out the window. Does any single person on this forum think that we, as mountain bikers have any interest in reckless building and cutting of trails at the cost of natural habitat? There's a very good reason every one of us rides on mountains and not roads. Don't discredit people's ability to self-police and naturally do what is best for everyone, since what is good for my enjoyment will in all likelihood be good for yours and if some douche wants to destroy it why can't we deal with that then. I have a serious problem with preventative laws as they often just end up being thinly veiled products of a nanny mentality.A lot of the problems that created this thread are as a result of an inability to self-police. (amongst other things). And yes, the vast majority would not create reckless trails. But as in most things, it's the buggers who don't think long-term that cock it up for the rest of us. All most of us want is a place to ride, and where this is heading is one less place to ride. mikethebike234, Blackbeard and Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicoBoshoff Posted February 5, 2014 Share A lot of the problems that created this thread are as a result of an inability to self-police. (amongst other things). And yes, the vast majority would not create reckless trails. But as in most things, it's the buggers who don't think long-term that cock it up for the rest of us. All most of us want is a place to ride, and where this is heading is one less place to ride. I am starting to strongly suspect that the simple solution to Tokai is to leave it as a jeep track only ride because this attempt to work with Sanparks in the hope of getting proper trail (i.e. a reason for me to pay R45 at the gate so that they can fund all their other projects) is folly. Leave it as jeeptrack. Leave table mountain as jeep track. Let the trail money go to private owners who see the return on investment (which for them is literally F ALL since they just grant permission - all funding is sourced privately). There's a very good reason politicians aren't in the private sector (because competition scares them and they want power for nothing) and there's an even better reason for politicians loving infinite amounts of red tape (because otherwise they'd be out of a job). Sanparks has every incentive to just drag this out as long as they like. Until gate takings go away, which they may never since some people seem more than happy with the state of affairs as they are. Enjoy. Please understand, I'm not dissing the Deon's and Rob's who work their asses off to get through to government. I just personally think they're suckers for punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicoBoshoff Posted February 5, 2014 Share To wit: Trillian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Buttox Posted February 5, 2014 Share I am starting to strongly suspect that the simple solution to Tokai is to leave it as a jeep track only ride because this attempt to work with Sanparks in the hope of getting proper trail (i.e. a reason for me to pay R45 at the gate so that they can fund all their other projects) is folly. Leave it as jeeptrack. Leave table mountain as jeep track. Let the trail money go to private owners who see the return on investment (which for them is literally F ALL since they just grant permission - all funding is sourced privately). There's a very good reason politicians aren't in the private sector (because competition scares them and they want power for nothing) and there's an even better reason for politicians loving infinite amounts of red tape (because otherwise they'd be out of a job). Sanparks has every incentive to just drag this out as long as they like. Until gate takings go away, which they may never since some people seem more than happy with the state of affairs as they are. Enjoy. Please understand, I'm not dissing the Deon's and Rob's who work their asses off to get through to government. I just personally think they're suckers for punishment.If wasn't going through a similar process in my private business, I'd maybe be as cynical as you, but some things are just worth fighting for. You just can't destroy the object of your passion. Call me idealistic... Or I'm just getting old. Lol Capricorn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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