First Tokai MTB AGM

[Capricorn]

Same old negativity from you eh? Boring.

 

I think Mayhem, what you are saying is when riders use the illegal trails they should leave Strava off - would that be accurate ?

 

ai. more witlessness.

[Headshot]

Throw out some bait and the fish come

[GoLefty!!]

I respectfully disagree. If you had been there last night you would have heard Meurant encouraging the committee to approach the city and local politicians to exert pressure on Sanparks to up their game in terms of opening up access. You would have also heard Meurant saying that he had told Sanparks that if they don't come to the party this year Amarider would effectively pull out of Tokai and that Tokai would descend into a free for all.

 

some people really have to learn to listen properly. Yes he made those comments and suggestions on how to get what we want but what he was really saying is that if SANParks does not deliver on their promises then the riders will do what they want. His discussion with SANParks was essentially a soft encouragement to come to the party before things get out of control and the only viable route forward is the total ban on mountain biking in Tokai till SANParks decides otherwise.

 

reading between the lines, Meurant said that both sides need to learn to work together effectively (SANPArks and TokaiMTB).

That means SANParks needs to up their communication on their plans and Tokai MTB needs to get control of the riders and start abiding by what has been promised to the landlord in terms of behaviours e.g. stop building illegal trails and riding on trails not intended for MTB.

 

Working with local politicians is a good way to go but let's face it, commercial properties n the Tokai, Westlake area contribute more to the micro economy than trails in Tokai does over a year. Understand the pecking order and we'll realise that we're a bunch of elitists nagging for a playground. In an adult world, thats a very low priority so working WITH SANParks is the only win win.

 

but we must all walk this road to reach our Damascus moment

Edited February 19, 2014 by GoLefty!!

[Flowta]

some people really have to learn to listen properly. Yes he made those comments and suggestions on how to get what we want but want he was really saying is that if SANParks does not deliver on their promises then the riders will do want they want. His discussion with SANParks was essentially a soft encouragement to come to the party before things get out of control and the only viable route forward is the total ban on mountain biking in Tokai till SANParks decides otherwise.

 

reading between the lines, Meurant said that both sides need to learn to work together effectively (SANPArks and TokaiMTB).

That means SANParks needs to up their communication on their plans and Tokai MTB needs to get control of the riders and start abiding by what has been promised to the landlord in terms of behaviours e.g. stop building illegal trails and riding on trails not intended for MTB.

 

Working with local politicians is a good way to go but let face it, commercial properties n the Tokai, Westlake area contribute more to the micro economy than trails in Tokai does over a year. Understand the pecking order and we'l realise than we're a bunch of elitists nagging for a playground. In an adult world, thats a very low priority so working WITH SANParks is the only win win.

 

but we must all walk this road to reach our Damascus moment

 

Agreed, but it can't be used as an excuse when other avenues are available.

 

A lot of the "plans" are already available, you just need to ask the right people.

 

e.g. The fire plan for TMNP and the harvesting/logging plan has already been supplied to SANParks/TMNP, but it's very easy for somebody to say "I/we don't know" or "they don't tell us".

 

If the person who's being spoken to doesn't know or is unhelpful, dig a bit deeper, ask someone else, see if there's another angle you can pursue to get the info.

 

The logging over the Snake trails was planned months in advance, they didn't just drive passed Tokai and say, "Oh, let's harvest some trees here"

[Flowta]

Agreed, but it can't be used as an excuse when other avenues are available.

 

A lot of the "plans" are already available, you just need to ask the right people.

 

e.g. The fire plan for TMNP and the harvesting/logging plan has already been supplied to SANParks/TMNP, but it's very easy for somebody to say "I/we don't know" or "they don't tell us".

 

If the person who's being spoken to doesn't know or is unhelpful, dig a bit deeper, ask someone else, see if there's another angle you can pursue to get the info.

 

The logging over the Snake trails was planned months in advance, they didn't just drive passed Tokai and say, "Oh, let's harvest some trees here"

 

To add, this is not aimed at anyone.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

We need to think outside the box and not rely on a government organisation to give us everything

[DJR]

....................

The logging over the Snake trails was planned months in advance, they didn't just drive passed Tokai and say, "Oh, let's harvest some trees here"

 

Yes, it was planned, for some time, by Cape Pine. Still, despite that, the SANParks manager of Tokai only learnt about the logging of the snake trails the day the loggers moved in to start cutting. And the Tokai MTB community discovered it when the first rider encountered a "closed for logging" sign later that day when he wanted to ride the Snakes.

 

That is the type of thing the new committee will have to deal with in future, and that is why I wish them all the luck, thick skinned-ness, doggedness, patience and balls the size of melons. It is not going to be easy!

[GoLefty!!]

Agreed Flowta, BUT

 

SANParks have a lot of people phoning them out of frustration asking the same questions. Somewhere within SANParks the communications with the mtb community is not being co-ordinated.

 

So Yes I can get the latest plans from "Someone" but I won't get information on when those plans are being executed unless I talk to the right people. Often those "right" people don't want to divulge information because surprise surprise, managing mtb'er requests is only 5% of their day jobs.

 

Believe it or not, we are low on the pecking order. Yes we bring in money but the more we add to their "hassle factor" the less value that money really has.

 

The other thing is timing. Often people phone in and get some information from "Someone". That information is then quickly disseminated amoungst the mtb community . Meanwhile back at the ranch, the people in SANParks who are designated to be interacting with the MTB community don't even know the information has been made available yet. Surely that's happened in your workplace....?

 

People don't know what they don't know and therefore cannot share what you want. It seems a lot of folk have inside sources at SANParks and False Bay Coastal Reserve to allow them to have information that has not even been shared within SANParks. Then we hold our VOLUNTEERS responsible.. I didn't realise that we spend our days trying to stitch up our friends and set them up for failure.

 

I'm sitting on information and others have other relevant information. However, for the process to work, sometimes you need to sit on what you know or make the information available to the person who is representing you. Yet we choose to moer our friends on open forums.

 

Last nights AGM was a muted affair. Where was the mudslinging? Can't people have a tough conversation anylonger without a keyboard?

 

<working on my decombobulator to miniaturise myself to the size of a fly on the wall at the first committee meeting...>

[Flowta]

Yes, it was planned, for some time, by Cape Pine. Still, despite that, the SANParks manager of Tokai only learnt about the logging of the snake trails the day the loggers moved in to start cutting. And the Tokai MTB community discovered it when the first rider encountered a "closed for logging" sign later that day when he wanted to ride the Snakes.

 

That is the type of thing the new committee will have to deal with in future, and that is why I wish them all the luck, thick skinned-ness, doggedness, patience and balls the size of melons. It is not going to be easy!

 

Sending you a PM

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Yes, it was planned, for some time, by Cape Pine. Still, despite that, the SANParks manager of Tokai only learnt about the logging of the snake trails the day the loggers moved in to start cutting. And the Tokai MTB community discovered it when the first rider encountered a "closed for logging" sign later that day when he wanted to ride the Snakes.

 

That is the type of thing the new committee will have to deal with in future, and that is why I wish them all the luck, thick skinned-ness, doggedness, patience and balls the size of melons. It is not going to be easy!

 

It was also out of kilter with their proposed initial cutting schedule, as far as I understand it. The normal cutting schedule extends to 2024. Apparently the "new" cutting schedule has them leaving as early as 2017. Which is far faster than originally planned.

 

Same as Bennett wasn't given a cutting schedule for Jonkers... the section that is being logged now was the next to be logged, but it would have been nice of them to make it available to him this time last year...

[Guest Omega Man]

 

 

Last nights AGM was a muted affair. Where was the mudslinging? Can't people have a tough conversation anylonger without a keyboard?

 

There's been enough of that. We need to move forward now for the good of Mountain Biking on that mountain.

[Headshot]

I disagree on the hassle factor - this is a park - they have thousands of users - dog walkers, hikers, tour buses etc.Its their business to deal with the public and user groups on a daily basis...

 

I think all that needed to be said was said a week or two before the meeting hence the quiet meeting last night. All good I think. Why the need for constant drama Golefty?

[Flowta]

Agreed Flowta, BUT

 

SANParks have a lot of people phoning them out of frustration asking the same questions. Somewhere within SANParks the communications with the mtb community is not being co-ordinated.

 

So Yes I can get the latest plans from "Someone" but I won't get information on when those plans are being executed unless I talk to the right people. Often those "right" people don't want to divulge information because surprise surprise, managing mtb'er requests is only 5% of their day jobs.

 

Believe it or not, we are low on the pecking order. Yes we bring in money but the more we add to their "hassle factor" the less value that money really has.

 

The other thing is timing. Often people phone in and get some information from "Someone". That information is then quickly disseminated amoungst the mtb community . Meanwhile back at the ranch, the people in SANParks who are designated to be interacting with the MTB community don't even know the information has been made available yet. Surely that's happened in your workplace....?

 

People don't know what they don't know and therefore cannot share what you want. It seems a lot of folk have inside sources at SANParks and False Bay Coastal Reserve to allow them to have information that has not even been shared within SANParks. Then we hold our VOLUNTEERS responsible.. I didn't realise that we spend our days trying to stitch up our friends and set them up for failure.

 

I'm sitting on information and others have other relevant information. However, for the process to work, sometimes you need to sit on what you know or make the information available to the person who is representing you. Yet we choose to moer our friends on open forums.

 

Last nights AGM was a muted affair. Where was the mudslinging? Can't people have a tough conversation anylonger without a keyboard?

 

<working on my decombobulator to miniaturise myself to the size of a fly on the wall at the first committee meeting...>

 

Well then, let's get those contacts to the committee.

 

There are plenty of publicly distributed contact numbers, who will provide information that is asked for, and are generally quite forthcoming with information.

 

The committee can use as much guidance as it can get, but finding out information that with affect current and future trail development is essential.

[Guest Omega Man]

Guys can't we all get along?

 

I think last night's meeting went very well. A new committee was chosen for Tokai MTB. 5 individuals that are all passionate about the mountain and mountain biking.

 

We're set to meet for the first time next week and hopefully very soon after that there will be regular and informative news coming from the committee. The term of service is one year which I'm massively in favor of because it guards against complacency. If we're doing a bad job you guys can vote us out the next year.

 

I was hoping for a turnout of 1000 riders. That was my only disappointment.

[GoLefty!!]

drama? all that was said was via social media. How many face to face engagements? from what i can tell, there's still a strong undercurrent and that will surface unless differences are sorted out chop chop...

 

Hassle factors occur in all parks. Look at some of the US parks. They don't even allow dogs or bikes in some of their parks.

In Tokai, dog walkers, equestrians are all lower hassle factor because they're lower in number and tend to send through a lower volume of complaints and ask less of SANParks. They also seem to be more united in their cause. Some activities are not allowed in many of SA's park because of the hassle; managing the activity, the people, resources, maintenance, marketing material, blah blah blah just isn't worth it. Having the land just sit there is much easier. Saying "its their job" is pretty sort sighted because a job is only there if there is a purpose for it. The fact that they apponting people to handle mountan bikers is clearly indicative of the hassle having gone up.

 

So lets see where the committee goes and who sticks it out for a year and what is achieved. I've stocked up on popcorn. needs some chips for the re/decombobulator

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

drama? all that was said was via social media. How many face to face engagements? from what i can tell, there's still a strong undercurrent and that will surface unless differences are sorted out chop chop...

 

Hassle factors occur in all parks. Look at some of the US parks. They don't even allow dogs or bikes in some of their parks.

In Tokai, dog walkers, equestrians are all lower hassle factor because they're lower in number and tend to send through a lower volume of complaints and ask less of SANParks. They also seem to be more united in their cause. Some activities are not allowed in many of SA's park because of the hassle; managing the activity, the people, resources, maintenance, marketing material, blah blah blah just isn't worth it. Having the land just sit there is much easier. Saying "its their job" is pretty sort sighted because a job is only there if there is a purpose for it. The fact that they apponting people to handle mountan bikers is clearly indicative of the hassle having gone up.

 

So lets see where the committee goes and who sticks it out for a year and what is achieved. I've stocked up on popcorn. needs some chips for the re/decombobulator

 

Tim, that's where we're actually ahead of the game. We're the only user group that have formed a unified body to deal with Parks (the whole range from Table Mountain to the point) and as such are the only formally recognised group.

 

If horse riders did the same thing, or dog walkers, runners etc it'd be a step in the right direction for them. Excuse the pun, if you will... but we (as MTBers) are the only constituted, organized body.

 

I know there was a move to legitimize / organize a single horse-riding body, but it was short lived. There are (as far as I know) too many factions within that particular sphere at the moment.

[Guest Omega Man]

there's still a strong undercurrent and that will surface unless differences are sorted out chop chop...

That much is true. I can tell you I've been in contact with both Myles and Deon today to try to get them to come out to Jonkers for the enduro this weekend so we can ride and chat in more friendly surroundings. We are after all mountain bikers first.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Omega Man