Should there be chicken runs in XCO at a provincial and national level?

[Super_mil]

Final point, the time penalties on B-lines also can't be too great either otherwise you end up with a situation like at last years Masters World Champs where the guys would simply send themselves over the obstacles as the idea of incurring a sizable time penalty was too much for them to bare, so plenty folks visited the medics and never actually got to ride the race. So it's quite a delicate balance that the track builder needs to obtain.

[Stretch]

Like in DH, a chicken line should IMHO slow a rider down enough that they cannot be in contention for a podium, especially if it is a provincial level race. There has to be a decent incentive to take the risky lines.

This is XCO, a test of endurance AND skill.

Otherwise they can go and race XCM, on jeep track and district roads.

 

dh and xc are different beasts...dh is largely about technical wheras XC is a combination of tech and fitness

[nolipoli]

dh and xc are different beasts...dh is largely about technical wheras XC is a combination of tech and fitness

 

...which means you need to be proficient at both.

[Stretch]

...which means you need to be proficient at both.

 

yes...but it should not necessarily preclude you from a podium if you are very strong but not so good technically - i.e. if you take A lines for all but the two most difficult obstacles does that mean you should not podium?..obviously if you are taking all b lines then you should be penalised enough not to podium..

[Naas Vermaak]

...which means you need to be proficient at both.

 

Thx so far.

 

It now seems clear that a B-line is a must and I agree. Next thing then is that one should actually look at grading the obstacles and determine the time-penalty per obstacle. Also the number of obstacles should be a determining factor. If you have only 4 obstacles then clearly a 3-5 sec penalty is not enough, more 10 - 15 seconds. If you have 10 obstacles then 5 sec's per obstacle is more acceptable.

 

What we are all in agreement with though is that the technical proficient and fit rider should podium and not the fit strong rider that has below par technical skills, am I right?

[Stretch]

Thx so far.

 

It now seems clear that a B-line is a must and I agree. Next thing then is that one should actually look at grading the obstacles and determine the time-penalty per obstacle. Also the number of obstacles should be a determining factor. If you have only 4 obstacles then clearly a 3-5 sec penalty is not enough, more 10 - 15 seconds. If you have 10 obstacles then 5 sec's per obstacle is more acceptable.

 

 

 

very difficult to do - grading of obstacles - what you could more easily do is grade it according to the obstacles on that course. i.e. this is the most technical obstacle - this is the second most etc..and then time penalise according to that. Most technical on that particular course will result in a 40-60% penalty etc

 

you cannot grade the obstacles like rapids though as an a line on one part of the country is a c line in another

[MoreTrails]

Reward the riders that are skilled and fit....because if you are not and want to race at that level, then you need to up your game if you want to be competitive.

 

As many have pointed out - fitness AND skill should be key and rewarded as such.

If you going to have a technical area that forces the field to split, then similarly you should have a "fitness" type obstacle that will allow the B line riders to potentially catch up.

 

If you can do both well, you deserve the podium!

 

(That being said, I firmly believe XC courses should have the technical obstacles that makes the competitors consider using a dropper seat post on the day..... and has scantily clad beer maids at the "C-line" beer penalty)

[MoreTrails]

very difficult to do - grading of obstacles - what you could more easily do is grade it according to the obstacles on that course. i.e. this is the most technical obstacle - this is the second most etc..and then time penalise according to that. Most technical on that particular course will result in a 40-60% penalty etc

 

you cannot grade the obstacles like rapids though as an a line on one part of the country is a c line in another

 

Agreed, what we consider a black route in SA is probably more similar to a red route for overseas riders

[DanMan]

We can look at it from the other side. The B-line could be the normal route and the A-line, if you willing to take it, can save you a few seconds. It seen more as a reward for taking the risk.

 

I also think 5 seconds delay is more than enough as you be doing 7 laps if your an elite rider. 5sec x 7laps = 35 seconds. That can cost you a podium place.

[KevinHow]

A chicken run should not allow for XC riders to walk, but should be non technical enough to allow even the basic of riders to be able to ride it. If the chicken run takes 10 secs or 1 minute longer to ride, then thats the xc riders choice at that moment in the race. If after making the choice to go down the chicken run the very same rider beats you - then he is probably stronger and fitter.

 

By the way anyone who knows how to build a XC course will design it in such a way that any chicken run option will significantly penalise the rider i.e. taking longer to ride

[Danger Dassie]

Thx so far.

 

It now seems clear that a B-line is a must and I agree. Next thing then is that one should actually look at grading the obstacles and determine the time-penalty per obstacle. Also the number of obstacles should be a determining factor. If you have only 4 obstacles then clearly a 3-5 sec penalty is not enough, more 10 - 15 seconds. If you have 10 obstacles then 5 sec's per obstacle is more acceptable.

 

What we are all in agreement with though is that the technical proficient and fit rider should podium and not the fit strong rider that has below par technical skills, am I right?

 

It's also a risk vs reward factor, you may lose time on a B line but you may also lose the race on an A line if you're not 100% comfortable racing it. So nothing to do with technical proficiency really, but rather analysing when to ride what.

 

Case in point, Anika Langvad took fourth at the recent WC, there were occasions she took a B option on Over the Top. Jolanda Neff nearly took herself out of the race completely by crashing in the rock garden at the bottom of Corkscrew. All the while there were also riders taking all the A lines but were at the back end of the field.

 

So no, the "technical proficient and fit rider should podium and not the fit strong rider that has below par technical skills" doesn't always ring true.

Such is the relative unpredictable nature of XCO. Theres nothing hard and fast about it, other than it's hard and fast.

[porqui]

If you feel that the B and C line does not add enough of a penalty why take the A line and add to the risk factor.

It is all about choice of line you either add risk or time. You were free to choose the chicken run but chose the A line with only a 3sec advantage.

[stringbean]

If you gaining 5 sec/obsticle X 3 or 4 obsticles per lap and in your age group you doing 5 laps Naas ,thats a huge amount of time you gaining.If someone taking B line is still beating you with that amount of time you gaining taking the A line i'm sorry but they deserve to.One or two minutes in XCO is a lifetime.So who ended ahead of you that's upset you Naas?

[Matt Lochner]

XCO is a lot about skill but I think losing more than 10sec on a B line is probably the limit as XCO is mainly about FITNESS. However ever having longer time penalties on the first to spread the field out more is a good idea, but it must be a safeish obstacle so that the bailures don't break themselves, like the big gap followed by drop (removed from race) at WP xco 2 was too dangerous as some people just threw themselves over and one guy broke a jaw in practise

But yeah, I am for big jumps because I can do em and gain time but rather not at the expense of less skilled riders.

[Matt Lochner]

XCO is a lot about skill but I think losing more than 10sec on a B line is probably the limit as XCO is mainly about FITNESS. However ever having longer time penalties on the first to spread the field out more is a good idea, but it must be a safeish obstacle so that the bailures don't break themselves, like the big gap followed by drop (removed from race) at WP xco 2 was too dangerous as some people just threw themselves over and one guy broke a jaw in practise

But yeah, I am for big jumps because I can do em and gain time but rather not at the expense of less skilled riders.

[Stretch]

And then of course you get the different lines in some of the A lines themselves.. A good rock garden should have 2 3 or even 4 lines for the guys to choose.... Watching nino passing julien on the tree house rock garden was a sight to behold

 

Edited April 22, 2014 by Stretch