Rogue Riding

[DJR]

you have one in the CSA - if all cyclist were licensed with the csa and clearly identifiable with a bike board for e.g. then any mtb'er found on a trail without one may be prosecuted for trespassing. if licensed and caught on pvt land then the mtb'er could be banned from competing. but hey ppa got their judgement.

 

1. Sure as hell the court case where CSA got a bloody nose has nothing to do with the issue of rogue riding mtb trails.

 

2. Or are you proposing that we all pay CSA rather than the landowner or club? Then CSA in return can build, maintain, patrol and police the trails? That CSA controls what goes or not on private property? We'll all get booted off private land before you know it.

 

3. What CSA CAN DO if they want to be useful, is to lobby government to open STATE LAND to us all for free. Yes, all the mountains, green belts, conservation areas. They belong to all citizens. Get it opened CSA.

[Cassie]

i attended the meeting Johan is referring to. The catalyst was the episode with the rider in Durbanville which resulted in the farmer closing off the trails on his land to the Tygerberg Mtb members.

There isn't any land around that doesn't belong to anyone. Ask for permission nicely and more often than not, you will be allowed access. Just don't think because you got permission once, you are entitled to ride there anytime.

 

Having said that, I would want to encourage Tygerberg Mtb to look at their honesty box system. I have been to Meerendal twice in the last month and both times there was nobody in attendance to give me a receipt for my payment. How am I supposed to prove that that I am not a rogue rider and paid my fee?

 

Pity I was not aware of this meeting....I can add 2 x wine farms in S-west area that has been close off due to Rouge riders...On the one farme we "invested" ~120 man hours building some really nice single track...to no avail now!!

 

That hurts...and make me pretty angry at Rogue Riders... It's no different than stealing from me if you look at it closely.

[Cassie]

If you are caught on a property or in an area where no riding is allowed and where you could not possibly have ended up by mistake, I think it is justified for the landowner to prosecute you for trespassing.

 

If you are caught riding in an area where you are allowed to ride, but you could not pay because of something beyond your control, I think the landowner should be a bit more understanding. Most will just drop it if you are polite. However, if you become aggressive or abusive, then I would encourage him to prosecute you, no matter how sad your story.

 

Mostly this is about manners and respect, and sadly, both are in short supply.

 

 

Does anyone actually know of a case where prosecution by a landowner was succesful?

I'd be interested to know...

[Cassie]

This should have happened long ago. There are MANY rogue riders, it is not only a few.

 

These landowners that agreed to prosecute are extremely generous to do so - to take on legal action and the associated cost and effort with it - if it was me (and I assume most landowners would do the same) I would just ban mtb riding on my land. We should be grateful for these landowners for not banning all mtb riders.

 

This was EXACTLY our situation...in our club, I'm tasked with liaising with a certain amount of the farms...(we have access to ~30 wine farms here...a real priviledge that needs to be looked after - it's our club's greatest asset!)

 

any way, this particular wine farmer is a good friend of mine...after numerous Rogue riders and insulting his wife etc. on the route - I was encouraging him so strongly to please just prosecute 1 person...it would have gone a long way...but he just said "it's far easier to just throw in the towel and close off for all MTBing"...imagaine the potential bad publicity a tresspassing trial can have on his bussiness side?? Not too mention the lawyers fees!!

[Cassie]

1. Sure as hell the court case where CSA got a bloody nose has nothing to do with the issue of rogue riding mtb trails.

 

2. Or are you proposing that we all pay CSA rather than the landowner or club? Then CSA in return can build, maintain, patrol and police the trails? That CSA controls what goes or not on private property? We'll all get booted off private land before you know it.

 

3. What CSA CAN DO if they want to be useful, is to lobby government to open STATE LAND to us all for free. Yes, all the mountains, green belts, conservation areas. They belong to all citizens. Get it opened CSA.

 

Now THAT will make me happy!! In fact..I'll gladly pay CSA any affiliation fee if they can ensure that...

[marko35s]

you have one in the CSA - if all cyclist were licensed with the csa and clearly identifiable with a bike board for e.g. then any mtb'er found on a trail without one may be prosecuted for trespassing. if licensed and caught on pvt land then the mtb'er could be banned from competing. but hey ppa got their judgement.

What has any of that got to do with riding on private land?

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

 

Pity I was not aware of this meeting....I can add 2 x wine farms in S-west area that has been close off due to Rouge riders...On the one farme we "invested" ~120 man hours building some really nice single track...to no avail now!!

 

That hurts...and make me pretty angry at Rogue Riders... It's no different than stealing from me if you look at it closely.

 

You were there, Cassie... so was I... It was at Dirtopia last year. Meurant chaired it...

[D Vader]

Next time I am up in Gauteng, can I hop over your fence, pitch a tent for a couple of days and braai to feed myself?

Share the earth- that kind of stuff.

Kandui, you would be most welcome

I will also take you on some very lekker rides where we will not trespass!

[SeaBee]

Agree with you, Hellwrap, and I know that's your guys' policy to only allow annual riders. I already have two annual memberships to trails in my area. But reality is, on the odd day you want to go ride something else. As with the case this weekend, we were even told how to get in, should the guy not be on his post - and paid afterwards. And it was way after their advertised hours have started.

 

So I'm not all that frustrated - and I'n definately not riding rogue. I just remember actually thinking along the ride that we don't have any proof that we did not scale a fence to ride here, but for the fact that we hope the security guard remembers us.

 

Indemnity I fully understand. But I think there could simply be indemnity boards on the beginning of the trails and that's it.

[Hellwarp]

SeaBee, we were considering going the annual permit only route but tweaked our day permit system and gave it another chance. The problem with indemnity signs on the trail is they get vandalised and or riders claim not to have seen or read them. In the end it comes down to a signature on the dotted line ....

 

Like I said, when it comes to managing MTB trails nothing is simple.

[SeaBee]

I can believe it! And I honestly think you guys are all doing an awesome job.

 

We are privileged to stay in such an amazing area, with people making riding easier and possible.

[reteid]

i would not like someone to come and trespass on my lawn.it might not satisfy all but you will never satisfy everyone.buy the annual permit,put it on your bike for all to see,ride the designated trail which should be well signed and anyone else no riding.might piss of a few but will keep the privilige of being able to ride available to thousands.if you want to ride a trail and you are not a member go and ride trails where no membership is needed.

[Mechanick]

I think a single, centralized and reasonable annual should be applicable if at all possible. There are too many separate annual fees payable in a radius of 50km from Durbanville.

 

I very seldom ride any of these routes and I live in Durbanville. Open district roads together with some tar allows for endurance riding, otherwise Majik does the trick for some single track. Alternatively, I pay to ride the odd race to see some other tracks.

 

I agree with all - trespassing is not correct and I don't encourage it. If I could pay a more reasonable annual license fee (consolidated that is), it would encourage me to pay it every year, meaning I am becoming a frequented member (or payee) therefore contributing to a more stable source of revenue to maintain our tracks.

 

One should not see or target weekend warriors who can simply not afford the time to ride in the week (making multiple annual fees unattractive) as part of a major fee generating population.

[Flowta]

I think a single, centralized and reasonable annual should be applicable if at all possible. There are too many separate annual fees payable in a radius of 50km from Durbanville.

 

I very seldom ride any of these routes and I live in Durbanville. Open district roads together with some tar allows for endurance riding, otherwise Majik does the trick for some single track. Alternatively, I pay to ride the odd race to see some other tracks.

 

I agree with all - trespassing is not correct and I don't encourage it. If I could pay a more reasonable annual license fee (consolidated that is), it would encourage me to pay it every year, meaning I am becoming a frequented member (or payee) therefore contributing to a more stable source of revenue to maintain our tracks.

 

One should not see or target weekend warriors who can simply not afford the time to ride in the week (making multiple annual fees unattractive) as part of a major fee generating population.

 

Which annual fees? I only know of 2 Tygerberg MTB Club and Bottelary hills.

 

Are there others?

[mazambaan]

It's sad that some "rogues" should both jeopardise access to trails on farms and steal from those that make a living from manufactured and maintained MTB trails (Hola & Giba say). Rumour has it that in KZN a few farmers are very unhappy about Sani2c trails being ridden without permission by riders that leave gates open etc as well.

 

Prosecution for trespass isn't that easy as I understand it. For various reasons the law is quite "trespasser friendly" as I understand it. I believe you have to have signage, then prove that these were ignored. So the best way may be to first issue a clear written warning, take photographs of the "rogues", then try prosecuting (laying a charge with SAPS) if they are caught again.

[eelvio]

Whilst I agree rogue is not acceptable, there are many people that do not want to purchase an annual fee for various reasons. Hence the need for day permits, there is no reason why they cant work and help keep people in the sport.

 

Conties is simple - sign indemnity with details, pop money in box and off you go. Why should this be a problem anywhere else.

I think Lebanon was the same with an addition of a plastic sleeve with a number on it which had to be written on the indemnity form to help prove payment.

 

What I don't understand is why when I have paid, some oke, who has his Tygerberg board on, does not have the courtesy to stop and ask me where mine is, instead shouts as he rides past saying where is your board. Screw you dumbass, I paid for my ride and my indemnity is in my pocket. I obeyed every rule that was set out for me. If you think someone is rogue as a member you have the right to ask them for their indemnity or to leave the trail.

 

If you don't want to spoil your ride by stopping and asking then leave me to ride in peace!