Dopers riding epic

[rock]

Think he said he took (steroids) to help him recover quicker from a knee injury which was not healing as planned...?

 

 

collarbone injury from a Tour de Langkawi bunch sprint crash.......as far as my memory has it.....

[SwissVan]

collarbone injury from a Tour de Langkawi bunch sprint crash.......as far as my memory has it.....

 

Hehe.... so which one of us does not needs to take memory improving drugs?

 

Hannie was for the collar bone and Hoffmann for the knee, i thought we were discussing Hoffmann

 

I'm take google and you?

[rock]

no google, but i tooremember Hoffan having a knee issue. I also remember the Neotel team that once was.

 

Owen was struggling to get back to form and got "something from an old school friend"

[Guest Travis.]

People need to learn to forgive and forget.

[gtr1]

Maybe doping should be a crmininal offence. have a record and get 2 years jail sentence......and yes you can't be allowed to train while in jail. Then they may think twice, and we may forgive.

 

Or at least. pay back all the money you made while cheating.........

 

But right now it's I'm so sorry, I keep all my winnings, I denied other people chances because i chetaed, and oh yes.....I train like hell and come back even better !!!!

 

And how many get caught again ???????

[Snails]

People cheering on Jens Voigt in another thread and then complaining about dopers in this one...

[carbon29er]

I doubt DG or any pro athlete who gets caught doping competes for society's benefit. Yes society does benefit from the entertainment point of view but there will always be someone to provide that entertainment.

 

History has shown us that having so called compassion (give them a 2 year ban and another chance) does not deter dopers from doping again, the sentence should be a deterrent that will make people be too scared to consider doping in the beginning. first place

No Van, you miss the point completely. Sport only happens because people participate in it. For whatever reason.  Professional sport only happens because society is happy to pay to be entertained by it. Without this payment there is no professional sport.

 

The participants take advantage of this fact to be rewarded but in the greater scheme of things our lives as spectators are not affected by the sentences specified by WADA on mandate from the IOC. Are we defrauded because we watched a guy win a race and he was later found to be cheating? No, we are not. Maybe 2nd place was, but as spectators we lost nothing.  Are we entitled to lead the moral crusade against the bans agreed as adequate by the world anti doping authority?

[Trackz]

He is now 100% rehabilitated

 

For what it's worth, I believe there are 2 issues in this whole debate which I think are mixed up.

 

1. The moral issue. From a moral perspective we are disappointed when our sport gets tainted or our hero's fail our trust. Pick your moral punishment but it should not be confused with regulatory punishment or consequences. Morally the punishment will manifest in social dynamics and this sentence is perhaps much worse than the regulatory punishment. Using moral measures to justify regulatory punishment measures seems inappropriate and driven by emotion rather than by what has been determined from a regulatory perspective, debated and agreed by the control authorities and may I add, the athletes themselves..

 

2. The regulatory issue. The consequences for the guilty are clear and if someone has served their punishment one could reason it would be unfair to expect them to be punished beyond what the sport's regulation require. If there is a belief that the regulatory punishment is too soft, then fix the punishment terms but it surely cannot be right to extend punishment beyond the regulatory punishment. Almost seems illegal. Like sending a person back to jail after his term just because we don't like what he did.

 

Let's give one another space to make mistakes, learn from them, pay our dues and become better people. I'd like to be treated that way so I'm happy to grant others the same opportunity.

 

My 2c

Edited September 19, 2014 by Trackz

[GLuvsMtb]

No Van, you miss the point completely. Sport only happens because people participate in it. For whatever reason.  Professional sport only happens because society is happy to pay to be entertained by it. Without this payment there is no professional sport.

 

The participants take advantage of this fact to be rewarded but in the greater scheme of things our lives as spectators are not affected by the sentences specified by WADA on mandate from the IOC. Are we defrauded because we watched a guy win a race and he was later found to be cheating? No, we are not. Maybe 2nd place was, but as spectators we lost nothing.  Are we entitled to lead the moral crusade against the bans agreed as adequate by the world anti doping authority?

 

It is not that simple. You have the role model factor. Sports stars more than most professionals have the ability to influence youngsters and can either encourage or discourage doping by their own actions (words these days mean very little). 

We took a very harsh stance on Hansie Cronje when he tried to cheat. That is probably why we have not seen a re-occurance of the offense, even with many of our cricketers over in India regularly playing IPL. 

I for one encourage the Epic's stance on doping and think that this should be extended to teams and support teams as well (another debate, but having a support team on dope influence the race by giving the A-team an advantage is also possible). I think it is regrettable that Vermaak decided not to bring the ban in from inception of the event, but I am sure that he got some extensive legal and PR advise on the matter. Fortunately 5 years down the line the policy that was grand-fathered in will be more effective. 

[JXV]

 

 

I think its because the victims as kinda unclear. All you steal as a doper is "potential careers"...

Dopers steal prize money, endorsements, sponshorships, team memberships and seeding positions from clean riders. So its both money and opportunity that is lost by the ethical people who would be better ambassadors for our sport.

 

Dunno why I'm even moved to comment. Don't much care for racing.....I just like being out there on my bike with a bunch of mates

[Tumbleweed]

No Van, you miss the point completely. Sport only happens because people participate in it. For whatever reason.  Professional sport only happens because society is happy to pay to be entertained by it. Without this payment there is no professional sport.

 

The participants take advantage of this fact to be rewarded but in the greater scheme of things our lives as spectators are not affected by the sentences specified by WADA on mandate from the IOC. Are we defrauded because we watched a guy win a race and he was later found to be cheating? No, we are not. Maybe 2nd place was, but as spectators we lost nothing.  Are we entitled to lead the moral crusade against the bans agreed as adequate by the world anti doping authority?

 

And if you punt a bit on the outcome of races?

[SwissVan]

No Van, you miss the point completely. Sport only happens because people participate in it. For whatever reason.  Professional sport only happens because society is happy to pay to be entertained by it. Without this payment there is no professional sport.

 

The participants take advantage of this fact to be rewarded but in the greater scheme of things our lives as spectators are not affected by the sentences specified by WADA on mandate from the IOC. Are we defrauded because we watched a guy win a race and he was later found to be cheating? No, we are not. Maybe 2nd place was, but as spectators we lost nothing.  Are we entitled to lead the moral crusade against the bans agreed as adequate by the world anti doping authority?

 

 

For what it's worth, I believe there are 2 issues in this whole debate which I think are mixed up.

 

1. The moral issue. From a moral perspective we are disappointed when our sport gets tainted or our hero's fail our trust. Pick your moral punishment but it should not be confused with regulatory punishment or consequences. Morally the punishment will manifest in social dynamics and this sentence is perhaps much worse than the regulatory punishment. Using moral measures to justify regulatory punishment measures seems inappropriate and driven by emotion rather than by what has been determined from a regulatory perspective, debated and agreed by the control authorities and may I add, the athletes themselves..

 

2. The regulatory issue. The consequences for the guilty are clear and if someone has served their punishment one could reason it would be unfair to expect them to be punished beyond what the sport's regulation require. If there is a belief that the regulatory punishment is too soft, then fix the punishment terms but it surely cannot be right to extend punishment beyond the regulatory punishment. Almost seems illegal. Like sending a person back to jail after his term just because we don't like what he did.

 

Let's give one another space to make mistakes, learn from them, pay our dues and become better people. I'd like to be treated that way so I'm happy to grant others the same opportunity.

 

My 2c

 

IMO the point is more about DG and similar dopers who dope to improve perfomance, these guys are grown ups who knew what they were doing and are prepared to take the chance because they know that they can come back from a 2 year ban if they get caught. 

 

Personally I dont believe those who knowingly dope to improve sporting perfomance deserve a second chance.

 

Will i suffer because of this? I'm a big LA fanboy and sure i miss seeing him compete and all the hype he brings with him... but in reality there are plenty of other competitors to fill the void left by banned dopers and my spectating has not suffered since his ban.

 

Should LA, DG  etc be given a second chance....?

NO, they knew what they were doing and there is no chance it was a mistake.

 

The recent ban extension for doping offenders from 2 to 4 years is a step in the right direction,

For anti-doping to be effective authorities need effective deterrents, not compassionate ones.