19/01/2015 Tokai 6am

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

18th feb @ the River Club, Obzzzzz.

[GoLefty!!]

You are not kidding. I have personally driven people and pets to medical help because of these very baboons.

 

DJR has a story to tell too. His friend Gary is lucky he deals with large business law because it's only that tenacity that I still believe got the baboon to back down!

 

 

 

not kidding, this happened last night around 6h45. Oke's so shaken he doesn;t want to ride in tokai again

[GoLefty!!]

18th feb @ the River Club, Obzzzzz.

 

 

Chips and beer?

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Chips and beer?

Dunno... if you want to, I guess you can buy there...

[GoLefty!!]

Ok that's good, probably going to needs lots of that + popcorn if discussion son thehub are anything to go by....

 

 

but ten again, last year everyone was expecting fireworks and the meeting went off like a damp squib

[(Deon)]

not kidding, this happened last night around 6h45. Oke's so shaken he doesn;t want to ride in tokai again

So the ranger stopping the hikers from picnicking was applying strange rules, or protecting people from a potential threatening situation? Seems he was performing his duties perfectly based on the info supplied. He prevented people (not hikers) from getting hurt.

 

Back to the topic:

If the OP really had a problem and it still bothers him, maybe he should try contacting the reps or TMNP as advised early on in the thread. 

 

Just a reminder to all, the OP went to the pay point with only half the story. Yes the rangers are on duty from 5 but that does not mean the rest of the admin staff are.. it's only an assumption that tickets would be sold earlier.

 

The real problem is on the north face of the mountain, there is no day permit option there...

[Eddy Gordo]

what time is the voting taking place?

[GoLefty!!]

So the ranger stopping the hikers from picnicking was applying strange rules, or protecting people from a potential threatening situation? Seems he was performing his duties perfectly based on the info supplied. He prevented people (not hikers) from getting hurt.

 

Back to the topic:

If the OP really had a problem and it still bothers him, maybe he should try contacting the reps or TMNP as advised early on in the thread. 

 

Just a reminder to all, the OP went to the pay point with only half the story. Yes the rangers are on duty from 5 but that does not mean the rest of the admin staff are.. it's only an assumption that tickets would be sold earlier.

 

The real problem is on the north face of the mountain, there is no day permit option there...

 

 

that's pretty much How I've always seen it. When we got night riding formalized one of MTO's concerns was not just people tripping over logging equipment but also baboons, especially in baby season (mating season not such an issue) . If someone gets attacked anywhere on that mountain at night there's no way of knowing that this occurred and you're basically going to get mauled and bleed out. Hence the rules exist. The rangers are there early to ensure that baboon troups get herded away from the entrance that will be used for mtbers and hikers. they're not there to write out tickets and take money.

 

heck I'm wondering at what point did we become so self-righteous. <Facepalm> SA culture!!!! 

[(Deon)]

I bet some have pressed their faces up against the glass doors at PnP or Woolies before opening time and watched the staff move around the shop sweeping, packing, counting..

 

..or does that not apply? 

[Guest Omega Man]

Ok that's good, probably going to needs lots of that + popcorn if discussion son thehub are anything to go by....

 

 

but ten again, last year everyone was expecting fireworks and the meeting went off like a damp squib

Haha. I'll be on my bike so I can make a quick getaway.

[dirtypot]

No fireworks, no free beer, no bucket of balls to hit...  Where's the appeal?

[Flowta]

I bet some have pressed their faces up against the glass doors at PnP or Woolies before opening time and watched the staff move around the shop sweeping, packing, counting..

 

..or does that not apply? 

 

Are these "office-hours" stated anywhere?

[Flowta]

I bet some have pressed their faces up against the glass doors at PnP or Woolies before opening time and watched the staff move around the shop sweeping, packing, counting..

 

..or does that not apply? 

 

 

Are these "office-hours" stated anywhere?

 

And yes, I have "pressed my nose against the window", because the sign outside says "We open at 7:30" and they open at 8:00.

[Guest Omega Man]

No fireworks, no free beer, no bucket of balls to hit...  Where's the appeal?

If I come out swinging with some accusations of nepotism will you come?

 

I know for a fact Vince brings his 13 year old son to all of the build days. If that isn't blatant nepotism I don't know what is.

[capediver]

DJR, on 19 Jan 2015 - 3:35 PM, said:DJR, on 19 Jan 2015 - 3:35 PM, said:

It is SANParks' prerogative to allow cyclists into Tokai at hours determined by them. If they choose to allow riders with Activity Cards in "before" office hours, and day permit riders only during "office hours", then that is shitty I agree, but it is still a decision they can make and enforce. Legally! Ranting about it is all well and fine, but to call them names will not solve the problem. Engaging them through Tokai MTB might take time, but it is our best bet to get change. Pissing them off will just get us a "no riding before 7am" notice and a locked gate!

Agreed...if you going to spend a lot of time there, get the Activity card... 7 visits and you done, the rest of the trips are free (based on day rate vs annual rate)...the guys at the gate are only there to record visits, not take payment (security I would assume) or debate rules...they know only one thing...no ticket, no entry..they don't arrive early and don't leave late, most likely because they don't get paid overtime...and they are all really nice guys, and that's because as people, they react well to civil, friendly discourse..be nasty and bad-tempered and they will use their power to stop you entering if you have no ticket...it's all really easy...for a lot of people Tokai is convenient and still good fun..the numbers may be down and I don't agree with the rate increase cause pound for pound it does make it a more expensive trail (no figuring costs to get there) but for me, personally, I have ALWAYS had fun there (except for the crashes and NONE of them have been anyone's else fault!! LOL!)

So if you want to ride early and miss the gate check, get the card/permit, make it legit and you'll feel good about it....even if you never get checked and there's never anyone at the gate...if you don't agree, then ride elsewhere .....the day permit is an issue and it will take forever to solve so deal with what it is right now...try get it before the ride....

Edit...spelling

[Headshot]

the no picnicking is to prevent you getting attacked by baboons. If you rode up and had a picnic then they probably didn't notice you had food packed. You're not suggesting they should have x-ray machines at the entrance to check what your primary objective is? At the end of the day it is up to us to respect the rules and not seek but advantage that benefits only our objective. If we want to be policed they could simply ban us. Then they'd make a few bob selling carbon frames.

 

ah if you think this baboons are harmless, one of my riding buddies was attacked last night. We were riding up to the arboretum and young male with his kint was being chased by a alpha male. the young male and his kint were looking back and didn't notice us and the male nearly ran into my pal. He didn't smaak this and went for my pal with fangs and claws . the oke nearly wet himself and defended himself by placing the bike between himself the male.

 

I just get the feeling from all this bitching sessions we have on the hub that mountain bikers in the cape want a full on police anti-riot squad on ever corner of the trail before they start to play ball.

 

very hard to distinguish what people actually want cos everything just seems to be a moan.

 

Well if you are not interested, then just go back to nonchalantly calling them stupid. Heck, I won't stop you. 

 

I see this discussion going sideways as usual. Where are we now, picnics?

 

Did the hikers have a basket, bag, shopping bag, a few juice bottles and a blanket.. what raised the suspicion they were going to place themselves at risk from a baboon raid? You say children. Any idea how traumatised children are around baboons aggressively attacking food? Did they make special arrangement for a monitor to accompany them, as is usual practice for an event like birthdays, or corporate do's?

 

Did you have a basket, bag, shopping bag, a few juice bottles and a blanket in easy sight of the ranger?

 

See, the difference here is that you again want to flood this discussion with points that suits your agenda. It's not that complex, unless you choose to make it so.

 

Their ticket office opens at 7/730, as stated in the OP. 

You may not ether without a ticket.

If you have an activity card and you are stopped in the park before 7, you will not get a fine.

They are aware of the issues but a solution is not available at this time.

 

repeat, repeat. 

 

PS, your statement in bold is just plain stupid. More so about the attitude than the offence... 

 

@Deon My agenda is, inter alia, to call out SANP for poor management and poor customer relations and push for a customer centered attitude to the MTB user group ie more riding areas and more trails.  It may be a losing battle with them, but hell its fun. I prefer this agenda to one which seems to try and justify everything that SANP does(or cannot do) no matter how illogical and shortsighted.   

 

Wapad - Some people probably do exactly what I suggest with or without permits and start early morning rides up the mountain at the Wapad. I was pointing out that this is entirely possible, making the rangers actions at Tokai pretty ludicrous.  I did not and have never advocated riding without a permit . The park has porous borders which it always will. 

 

I am on record as proposing that TMNP up their collection rate for MTB  fees at Tokai  - this to counter their claim that they don't collect enough at the gate to justify spending more of their budget there. That would include manning the gates from earlier to sell tickets and selling tickets via rangers rather than issuing tickets for fines ( its not rocket science is it). The latter idea was well received by local management but no doubt will go nowhere due to the stifling red tape.

 

 

Stopping people riding early in the morning when these facilities are not available is a little short sighted I think. I do think the OP should explain why if he's a regular he does not have an activity permit however(apologies if this has been covered already)

 

"They are aware of the issues but don't have a solution" - that's funny and quite typical of the TMNP response to everything and one which leads to ranting threads like this one. Putting it out there on their behalf when its meaningless and irritating to most of us makes little sense. It really just reinforces the perception that SANP is badly run.

 

As far as the "baboon menace" is concerned - in all my years in Cape Town, I have never ever had a serious problem with a baboon aside from one which tried to steal my car last year and that was funny rather than scary:-) . My 2 year old was strolling among them  in the car park a few weeks ago and loved it.  I regularly stop for a break to watch them and often see researchers (I presume) following them around in close proximity with no agro on display. That's my experience and reference point in over forty years on the mountain and I don't expect it to change any time soon. 

 

To my mind, to stop stop a couple of people walking into the forest for a picnic makes little sense when hikers and cyclists can stop and have a picnic anywhere they like. There is also a large "use at own risk" sign at the gate. Its quite simple - keep your eye out and pack up if the baboons approach. 

 

Table Mountain is not a game park with lions and stuff in it - someone should tell SANP :-)

 

You and Golefty should stop patting each other on the back and go ride a bit more. Maybe commune with the 'boons a bit while you there :-)