EddieV Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 I am a member of the PPA and a CSA full license holder. But since the PPA will now not be seeking CSA sanctioning for their races anymore, including the Tour De PPA tomorrow morning, (and the CTCT). I should now cancel my PPA membership, is that right? I can't partake in any of the PPA races anymore? I am sure I am not the only cyclist who had paid for the Tour De PPA tomorrow morning, (and CTCT) but now have to forfeit the ride and the entry fee. Doesn't help much, or make any sense, if you receive discount for a race entry and then face suspension when you line up ....Maybe I won't be the only one not showing up tomorrow morning?
GoLefty!! Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 No “Need” - NO control over their riders - have you ever seen for argument sake what riders have to do who are on "where about's" program who have to tell WADA where they will be at a certain time of day when they have chosen the window for random dope test! Cyclist / UCI is really trying to clean up their act in this regard - far more than most sport and I know it does not impact your life / affect you as already stated in the thread - I think after the LA story all cyclist appreciate the efforts put in by the UCI for this! Yes even the UCI know it’s not perfect yet. Been a PRO rider you are subject to been basically in jail - who else need to make themselves available for 1 hour of each day at a certain address except people on parole? The PRO riders are controlled in several aspect and no I cannot explain all the resoning behind this but the UCI have their reasons and yes I am sure some of them are just about plan money. But then the UCI is also a business just like PPA as also mentioned in this thread! Out of interest and I am not a MTB rider at all but I have noticed how successfully the MTB ride including the ABSA cape Epic have become and I am sure the success of the events has been because of the Pro’ riders who also participate in the events - why have you refer to it as been nostalgic when I have used an example of a simliar example in road cycling from 1984? The times they have not changed that much! Murant Botha who once served on PPA EXCO realised a long time ago his event needed to be sanction by CSA to let them grow along with most if not all of the poplar MTB event! cape epic is successful because of the 1150 amateurs who pay stupid amounts of money to participate and are forced to take out a CSA license for the event. If they had a choice they would not take out that license. The fact that CSA licensing is forced upon them does not make it obvious that the license is necessary. Its necessary because its imposed as an unfair tax on people who gain no benefit from it. amateurs need the CSA like a bullet to the head.
Icycling Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 I am a member of the PPA and a CSA full license holder. But since the PPA will now not be seeking CSA sanctioning for their races anymore, including the Tour De PPA tomorrow morning, (and the CTCT). I should now cancel my PPA membership, is that right? I can't partake in any of the PPA races anymore? I am sure I am not the only cyclist who had paid for the Tour De PPA tomorrow morning, (and CTCT) but now have to forfeit the ride and the entry fee.Doesn't help much, or make any sense, if you receive discount for a race entry and then face suspension when you line up ....Maybe I won't be the only one not showing up tomorrow morning? Their are a number of cyclists in your situation - So now what? Well if PPA don't realise they also need to comply with certain rules - at the next AGM vote the current “leadership” out, they too are probably also laughting like the ANC president does! I am almost at the point of asking for a special meeting to vote all 12 / 13 members off the EXCO of PPA out - problem is and I for one don't want to be back on the EXCO, thus finding 12 capable people who do! Possibly the PPA EXCO could be considered as the best of a bad bunch, but they showing ZERO leadership right now! Bye the way the PPA is so “corrupt” that you cannot vote out all EXCO members at one AGM as only 6 are up for re-election not the full committee so it takes two AGM! I need to look at the constitution far more closely to see is a special meeting can in some way removed all 12 / 13!
Icycling Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 cape epic is successful because of the 1150 amateurs who pay stupid amounts of money to participate and are forced to take out a CSA license for the event. If they had a choice they would not take out that license. The fact that CSA licensing is forced upon them does not make it obvious that the license is necessary. Its necessary because its imposed as an unfair tax on people who gain no benefit from it. amateurs need the CSA like a bullet to the head. As stated I have zero interest in MTB races - so I take it from where it comes. But you have stated that The ABSA Cape Epic is successful and a CSA sanctioned event and that is all I got from your answer!
eddy Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 you have stated that The ABSA Cape Epic is successful and a CSA sanctioned event and that is all I got from your answer!I have no dog in this fight but I think you are confusing cause and effect....
andydude Posted February 22, 2015 Posted February 22, 2015 With all the the top riders currently not been allowed to ride - why would I not be happy - giving me a chance as I am seeded in the $ bunch to win. Why because it stinks that the organiser of the event don’t want to follow the rules of the world governing body for cycling (UCI) to allow the top athletes not only in RSA but the World to compete - they have a whole host of reasons for this and relative to the entry fee of the event the organiser can make it right by parting with a small portion on the cash, it's like less than 2% of the entry (R6 per rider)! I know it's not only about the money, but an you please clarify for me; you only talk about the R6, but what about the other R35 day licence? I'm sure the majority of the CTCT participants are not CSA members.
Icycling Posted February 22, 2015 Posted February 22, 2015 I know it's not only about the money, but an you please clarify for me; you only talk about the R6, but what about the other R35 day licence? I'm sure the majority of the CTCT participants are not CSA members.CSA recently - this past report that they had R26 000 members. So yes probably only about 17 500 of the entratance have CSA licence! What is your discount for the Cape Town Cycle tour for been a PPA member more or less than R35 and PPA has about 18 000 members? What hte diffrence to the cost of the Cape Town cycle tour if you a PPA memeber or not? Their are many ways to skin a cat.
Tatt Posted February 22, 2015 Posted February 22, 2015 I'd hesitate a guess that a lot of those 17500 are not CSA members by choice... I am unfortunately one of them... What does the CSA do for me? Sweet nothing as far as I can tell. The PPA on the other hand I willingly pay for. Tom
Icycling Posted February 22, 2015 Posted February 22, 2015 As pointed out in this thread already PPA does not do much for me anymore either - below.In this I stated I think a lot o people pay their PPA membership fee R310 at the time they enter the Cape Argus, maybe Carbon20er can provide numbers on this! How many of these people are active PPA members - looking at the road funrides (Westen Cape not including the Cape Argus) which attract on avg about 2500 (probably too high) riders - not that many. So it seem a lot of cyclist just join PPA as they get a discount on the Cape Town cycle entry - think it’s about R80 but in doing so pay R310 to belong to PPA which they get very little use out off. IF PPA did not offer a renewal of membership when entering the Argus how many members do you think PA would really have - I’ve on a personnel level do it out of habit as apposed to anything else!Their a lot of thing I pay for some even waisting my time which I seem to get nothing for - a car license disc for argument sake!I tend to pay my PPA membership with my Cape Town cycle tour entry (think most people do). As I been a member of the association for 32 or 33 years - my original membership number was 147 i.e. the 147 member of the association along with serving on the EXCO for 18 years - I think I am in the position to say I seen a lot in terms of PPA! As a fully licenses ROAD rider with CSA / SACF which I have also been for 30 odd years - I suppose you will refer to me as a “racing snake."So what do I current get for my R310 membership fee:1. A discount on my Cape Town Cycle Tour entry - which may now mean nothing as I may not be allowed to start my 32 cycle tour.2. A tiff between PPA and CSA / UCI / Sasscoc3. Awarded a seeded number4. An email once a week which I can honestly say I don’t really read!5. A office staff of how many people?6. The knowledge that PPA is finically better off each yearRight now I cannot think of much more and this is not worth R310!So what have I in the past got for my membership which was less in years gone bye:1. I could ride the Cycle tour.2. In the post (the post office is not always on strike) I use to receive;Life Cycle magazine - 6 times per year. I also use to be able to advertise in this magazine which I did.My seeded number use to automatically came by post, in recent times I have to had to go to PPA to collect it.A color calendar (A3) with all the event which could be put on the fridge - in later times color broachers for all the events.3. The Giro Del capo - I personally did about 14 of these events. UCI sanctioned event including the final day the “Argus” on several occasions4. Road funrides and normally in summer before the Cycle tour 2 per weekend and about half in the Southern Suburbs where I live. So much so you could become a member of a 2000km (2000km of road fun rides ridden in a season) club in a season and over a few season a member of the 10 000km club which I am / was a member off.5. League races.6. The office staff was about 47. The knowledge that PPA would invest in it’s reason for being i.e. cycling and not try an save save save for a “rainy day."Right now I cannot think of much more but this was definitely worth the membership fee at the time - which was less than now!So all that has been lost, has been predominately to save cost to PPA which has happened and thus a nice 20 million in the bank! But the members / cycling has lost. Imagine your DSTV subscription went up each year, yet each year they removed 10 channels eventually you would stop your subscription?Now I appreciate Carbon29er you would like to take credit along with the current EXCO for the reason for PPA wealth but I believe you are 100% aware that this is mainly because of the "CTCT is a windfall.”A history lesson and currently the only person on the EXCO who is apart of this history is David Bellairs. Back around 1995 the then EXCO (including David Bellairs and myself) lead by PPA chairman at the time Mr Lawrence Whittaker (the 1st winner of the cycle tour and who also later became the president of CSA - so I think we may also regard him as a racing snake) renegotiated PPA position which Claremont Rotary with regards to the Argus cycle tour. Prior to these negotiations PPA owned the cycle tour but only received 10% of the income and with this PPA could not take cycling further. The EXCO wanted to take cycling further and with some very hard negotiation - Rotary did not like us at all for this - we agreed on a 50% ownership / profit share on this event. Claremont Rotary would use their share for their project (I am sure Claremont Rotary does not have 20 million in the bank, but I maybe wrong) and PPA would use their share for cycling which we did for a number of years and thus the membership was worthwhile.Today from my points above I am really not convinced the membership is worthwhile! Possibly I should be asking you to calculate what amount of the 20million (after all it is the members money as stead earlier in the thread) should be paid back to a member who has been a member for 32 year and say well please to take that portion and donate it to WPCA road cycling and I should terminate my membership of PPA. I will personally increase the donation to WPCA road cycling to make it a sizable donation similar to that what I have recently donated to wed Killarney and the Memorial track league meeting for Jeanne Nell.
Dicky DQ Posted February 22, 2015 Posted February 22, 2015 As pointed out in this thread already PPA does not do much for me anymore either - below. In this I stated I think a lot o people pay their PPA membership fee R310 at the time they enter the Cape Argus, maybe Carbon20er can provide numbers on this! How many of these people are active PPA members - looking at the funrides which attract on avg about 2500 (probably too high) riders - not that many. So it seem a lot of cyclist just join PPA as they get a discount on the Cape Town cycle entry - think it’s about R80 but in doing so pay R310 to belong to PPA which they get very little use out off. IF PPA did not offer a renewal of membership when entering the Argus how many members do you think PA would really have - I’ve on a personnel level do it out of habit as apposed to anything else! Their a lot of thing I pay for some even waisting my time which I seem to get nothing for - a car license disc for argument sake!So:Don't:SubscribeDon't partake in their offeringsHave nothing to do with themDo not ride the world fun-ride champs Do:Support CSAPartake in their offerings PPA does nothing for you so it is Simple! All this rhetoric which is much ado about nothing to be honest. PPA have a business model (yes it is a business) and it works for them and, apparently for all that pay their membership fees. The same for the CTCT and it's participants. So the question is what is the deal? In all other instances everyone is shouting to vote with their wallets; so why not in this instance? You don't like, don't partake. SIMPLE. No one that is going to partake cares about your beef with CTCT or PPA, it is all going to be forgotten by next month until next year. As an aside, I am sure the real Pro riders will weigh up the appearance fee vs the 50-100 CFH fine versus what the fee and their sponsors want. This whole thing is a non event.
dirk.leroux Posted February 22, 2015 Posted February 22, 2015 CSA issued a clarification:http://www.cyclingsa.com/news-and-press/2015/2/18/clarity-of-uci-rule-12019-forbidden-races-and-csa-general-membership Now they say the rule only applies to racing licence holders "...who wish to be eligible for provincial and national selection and respective colours award..." Us ordinary cyclist need not worry.
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted February 22, 2015 Posted February 22, 2015 CSA issued a clarification: http://www.cyclingsa.com/news-and-press/2015/2/18/clarity-of-uci-rule-12019-forbidden-races-and-csa-general-membership Now they say the rule only applies to racing licence holders "...who wish to be eligible for provincial and national selection and respective colours award..." Us ordinary cyclist need not worry.For which they can quite easily issue a concession. This whole thing is them trying to hold CTCT over a barrel and force them to request accreditation. Which the courts said they could not do. Now they're just trying to force riders to choose between competing and facing the ban. They could quite easily just say that this ride is exempt from the rules (aa simple extension of the court case) and this whole problem goes away. But no. They won't. Cos they're a greedy no good corrupt cycling body who are too busy squandering all our cash on business class tickets and Chivas. UCI can still test, and I'm sure the CTCT would welcome that. This is all just an overblown hissy fit That has gone too far.
andydude Posted February 22, 2015 Posted February 22, 2015 CSA recently - this past report that they had R26 000 members. So yes probably only about 17 500 of the entratance have CSA licence! What is your discount for the Cape Town Cycle tour for been a PPA member more or less than R35 and PPA has about 18 000 members? What hte diffrence to the cost of the Cape Town cycle tour if you a PPA memeber or not? Their are many ways to skin a cat.I wasn't trying to be a smart ass. It's just that it seems very clear that money is the main driver for the CSA. Why do you think people don't like and are reluctant to join the CSA? The CSA does almost nothing and more than that, they are seen as wasting money. For example, they can send officials overseas, but seldom help with riders' expenses. Imagine this scenario, CSA takes care of the racing side of cycling. Therefore, they approach the CTCTT and propose that they sanction the racing groups. It's called being proactive and looking after your key market. Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with everything the PPA does, but I would much rather pay them a yearly membership fee than to the CSA.
GoLefty!! Posted February 22, 2015 Posted February 22, 2015 Damn Dick and Che, Can I like like a million times those posts. Old Icycling is just starting to sound like a kid who can't his way and is stomping his feet. Pretty much indicative of the way CSA goes about its business. The blackmail is so transparent. So ...no they're wondering did PPA fire 5 bullets or 6 bullets. Tell us punks, ......do you feel lucky
HappyMartin Posted February 22, 2015 Posted February 22, 2015 I have to agree with GoLefty on a lot of this. It's a PPA thing and that makes it a Cape thing. Don't like it then don't go and do the ride. By all standards it's a great ride and most people love it. Was never my favorite so I stay away. Non issue really. Hope all the participants have a lovely safe day out on the bike. Hope the CTCT continues to attract thousands of upcountry riders to help fill the coffers of the PPA. The entry fee is really reasonable when you compare it to the cost of accommodation, transport, food and all the bits and pieces. Like the only guy that is allowed to sell safety pins that really should be in the goody bag but anyway good for him. If I must choose between UCI sanctioned events and PPA events I will choose the UCI events. I say UCI because ultimately it's a UCI rule that CSA has to adhere to. I have always thought the Roubaix a more interesting race to watch than the CTCT anyway. As long as I am allowed to do the Amashova, Panorama, 94.7, Sattelite Challnge, dome to Dome, Fast one, Ride For Sight, Carnival City, Emperors, Serengeti, Berg en Dal, Wilro and Jock then I am pretty satisfied.
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