Patchelicious Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 The people complaining here about having to take a few minutes extra on their journey because of a cyclist have probably spent more time posting here than they actually spent behind the cyclist. Why stop at ranting about cyclists? What about old age pensioners grocery shopping in peak times, people chatting at the top of escalators in malls, people walking in front of you and dawdling whilst chatting on their cell phones, people who can't be arsed to have their parking tickets ready when leaving a parking lot and have to hunt for them? The list is a long one. The point is life is full of inconveniences for most people, why single out cyclists, there must be more to it than simple delay? Maybe having to be responsible for others safety simply angers SA motorists?This is a cycling forum? I agree there are many other annoying factors in life, don't get me started on a few of the points you mentioned or how about boom gate operators with a sense of authority.... BUT seeing a this is a cycling forum, this seems to be more a plea to fellow cyclists to be a tad more considerate, rather than a singling out type rant.
Velouria Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 Can a motorist accept a traffic light not working as the cause of his delay and deal with the emotions of that? If his rage gets the better of him and he drives over the light does it die, or can it be replaced? Can that same motorist deal with a solitory cyclist out using a specific road that has no shoulder or verge to accomodate both the cyclist and vehicles safely getting by and deal with the obvious hold up while the cyclist travels in the opposite direction of most established work areas on an uphill stretch of road with a growing procession of cars idling along behind him? As a regular commuter would you consider using this piece of road at that specific time of the morning?? Again - you're being a cycling apologist. While possibly not as militant as GoLefty!, roads must accommodate all road users, and other road users need to learn to deal with that. Be it a cyclist, a donkey cart, a jogger, a tractor, a 1920 vintage Model T, or a clapped out Cape Flats Honda Ballade. My decision making process about choosing which road to ride on is as follows: Is it safe? And by safe, I'm talking about bike jacking and muggings. What's the surface like? If it's potholes and glass, I'll ride somewhere else How over eager have the traffic planners been? Excessive traffic lights and road furniture annoy me. Does the road get me to where I want to go?(Hmm - that list is exactly the same as the list I use when choosing a route in a car) By and large, I find motorists to be a rather jovial and accommodating bunch, and those that do get a little grumpy are easily disarmed with a smile and a wave. As my mother said - "Please and Thank You go a long way".
Tubehunter Posted April 14, 2015 Author Posted April 14, 2015 Again - you're being a cycling apologist. While possibly not as militant as GoLefty!, roads must accommodate all road users, and other road users need to learn to deal with that. Be it a cyclist, a donkey cart, a jogger, a tractor, a 1920 vintage Model T, or a clapped out Cape Flats Honda Ballade. My decision making process about choosing which road to ride on is as follows: Is it safe? And by safe, I'm talking about bike jacking and muggings. What's the surface like? If it's potholes and glass, I'll ride somewhere else How over eager have the traffic planners been? Excessive traffic lights and road furniture annoy me. Does the road get me to where I want to go?(Hmm - that list is exactly the same as the list I use when choosing a route in a car) By and large, I find motorists to be a rather jovial and accommodating bunch, and those that do get a little grumpy are easily disarmed with a smile and a wave. As my mother said - "Please and Thank You go a long way". Dude, we cycle\commute using largely similar principles. Don't misunderstand this thread to be my general demeanor around acceptance of cyclists and their right to the roads! I'm fiercely pro bicycle. I am just ever so slightly more pro life. (Very little option you have of adding anything more to any cause when you are no longer around!) I'd hazard a guess on your behalf and quite easily suggest that you would not use this stretch of road during these daily circumstances. You would make another plan, with a route change or a different time slot for your movement through the area.
DJR Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 I think we should perhaps get everybody together early one week morning and go ride Rhoides (pun intended ) Drive together........just so everybody will know exactly what the peak hour traffic there is like on a road that was designed for horse drawn carts a hundred years ago. No shoulder at all, trees sometimes centimetres from the tar, hedges overhanging the tar, not even wide enough for a bus or a truck to get around some corners without clipping the vegetation, blind corners, no street lighting, streams of cars bottle necking, steep incline, blind driveways.....or you can all just take my word for it that it is not a good place to be riding at that time. Not if you want to stay in one piece.
Pure Savage Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 STRAVA! https://www.strava.com/segments/5914648If you going to do it, do it properly! https://www.strava.com/segments/6433768
arendoog Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 Morning hubbers! Gotta put this out there, but some people who cycle really don't think about where and when they should ride certain routes so that they do not affect traffic flow as badly as they do! Picture the scene: It's 7:15 this morning, you're driving towards Hout Bay along Rhodes Drive watching peak hour traffic build up coming the other way. It's standstill coming towards you in sections and heavy the rest of the time. Going past Kirstenbosch Gardens up the little climb and you come to a halt. Queue of vehicles driving at 15 kays an hour crawling up the hill. Must be some slow vehicle you reason and you edge left as the road bends that way to see what the hold up could be. Aaah a cyclist claiming the lane (Even though there is a little shoulder). Not too much hassle, everyone makes it past before the right turn at Gloucester road junction as the road widens a little. Phew you sigh! But wait, there's another chap up ahead cycling who is also claiming the lane here. Back down to 2nd gear. He's clearly going for a strava segment, pushing it at a whopping 25 clicks. As a fellow cyclist it's impressive! Unfortunately not impressive enough to change the reality that I'm 4th car back in a queue folowing him up the hill, trying to make it to Hout Bay for a school drop off and back to Mowbray for an 8:30 meeting, hoping to do some prep before it. Crest the hill at the Botanical Gardens side gate and one of the cars ahead turns left on Klaasens. At this point it becomes a procession drive, as the volume of traffic coming from Hout Bay is so constant there is no way for any of the cars to clear the cyclist. He's boldly claiming the lane which makes it impossible to even consider trying to get past. You're watching both drivers in front losing their patience as even though he is hammering along, he is still keeping up a long, growing queue of vehicles but thankfully the driver at the front has not tried to overtake or allow his frustration to force the issue. Everyone is waving their arms in their vehicles, both in front and behind. One and a half KAYS later both cars ahead turn left in Hohenort ave, visibly annoyed at the distance they have travelled stuck behind this chap at such a key time of the morning. You're next up, but there genuinely is no safe way to get past this chap with the constant flow of oncoming cars. Hold back and do roughly another kilometer behind the guy until a gap in the oncoming traffic. You're now heading up the incline past Monterey and before Southern Cross Drive as you pull up next to him. What do you say? I went with "If you want to ride this route, get on the road earlier!". Most motorists can handle waiting to safely get by a cyclist. Not so much when the cyclist makes no effort to allow traffic to get by in a way that is safe for both parties. I regularly ride this same route myself, BUT for the life of me I would never do it at this time of the morning, heading against traffic knowing the result would be that no cars could get past me! Dude, whoever you are, you make it tough for us as cyclists to break down animosity towards our cause when you make choices like you did this morning. If you have to get to Chappies as part of your morning ride at that time of the day, hit Trovato Link to Alphen hill onto Constantia Main to the Nek. The shoulder is wider on that side and you'll impede traffic far less. People will still be able to overtake. If you absolutely must ride Rhodes Drive, do it at another time in the day. I suggest being through the Nek before 6:30am as then there is still an option for vehicles to get by you regularly.These cyclists are getting their last bit of colonial training done before the name changes to Push of a President road
Shebeen Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 If you going to do it, do it properly! https://www.strava.com/segments/6433768no one logged that segment yesterday. Three guys did the one I linked. cue:the detectives heading off to that one to see who was there at 7am.
Andrew_ew Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 This is a cycling forum? I agree there are many other annoying factors in life, don't get me started on a few of the points you mentioned or how about boom gate operators with a sense of authority.... BUT seeing a this is a cycling forum, this seems to be more a plea to fellow cyclists to be a tad more considerate, rather than a singling out type rant. To answer your question: yes, it is a cycling forum. My point is: why is the inconvenience suffered because of sharing a road with cyclist so much more aggravating to South Africans than any other inconvenience? That is why I compared it to other inconveniences. It truly puzzles me.
Patchelicious Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 To answer your question: yes, it is a cycling forum. My point is: why is the inconvenience suffered because of sharing a road with cyclist so much more aggravating to South Africans than any other inconvenience? That is why I compared it to other inconveniences. It truly puzzles me.So because its a cylcing forum we must expect cycling related rants here. HOWEVER I agree with you. Its no different and is not more annoying than other things. But you as a driver can right there and then shout and scream at the cyclist as he pisses you off, you cannot shout and scream at a Eskom when the power goes off. Its a psychological thing I suppose. We feel the need to crap on someone when we are annoyed, and we usually reach for the easiest one to vent at. The perception that motorist have about cyclists doesn't really help. If a horse cart was going up the road and blocked traffic a bit, the frustration level would be similar to that if it was a cyclist , I mean the time it will take you to get to the destination is delayed by the same amount, BUT you would show more restraint to the horse cart dude because its not a regular occurrence nor can he easily move to the side, cyclists piss motorist off on a daily basis, rightly or wrong so, so they get shat on more. And the self entitlement attitude shown also doesn't help. "I WILL ride here because I am allowed too". If everybody did do what they were allowed to, there would be chaos! Consideration needs to be shown, compromises made etc.... Just because you are allowed to ride in the middle of the road does not mean you should.There is also the common sense aspect, just because I am allowed and have a god given right to walk through JHB CBD at midnight doesn't mean I am going to. I am by no means saying the motorist are right, they are not, but the reality of it is many motorists have a perception of cyclists being arrogant inconsiderate road users, because some are! Thats why I make a point of always saying thanks to motorists who give me a gap, even if I see they make an effort to just pass me a little wider than usual I make sure to thank them, I have said it before, positive reinforcement is a powerful tool
Tubehunter Posted April 14, 2015 Author Posted April 14, 2015 To answer your question: yes, it is a cycling forum. My point is: why is the inconvenience suffered because of sharing a road with cyclist so much more aggravating to South Africans than any other inconvenience? That is why I compared it to other inconveniences. It truly puzzles me. Why is the right to cycling on any road that much more important than cycling somewhere far safer than traffic and road conditions for that time of the morning allow? Truly puzzles me.... Driving roughly 3 kilometers at best, possibly closer to 5 kilometers if you're the guy who started the procession at the back of the queue when it started, behind a cyclist doing an average speed of 20 odd clicks and hour is not a small inconvenience for the non cycling public. Come on ous. I have been cycling for long enough to know when it's the usual 30 second average delay that a vehicle would require to interact with a cyclist before both parties continue their journey. This was not that and riding on that road at that time will never be an acceptable delay for the overwhelming majority of people who use it for more than a training ride in other modes of transport.
GoLefty!! Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 So because its a cylcing forum we must expect cycling related rants here. HOWEVER I agree with you. Its no different and is not more annoying than other things. But you as a driver can right there and then shout and scream at the cyclist as he pisses you off, you cannot shout and scream at a Eskom when the power goes off. Its a psychological thing I suppose. We feel the need to crap on someone when we are annoyed, and we usually reach for the easiest one to vent at. The perception that motorist have about cyclists doesn't really help. If a horse cart was going up the road and blocked traffic a bit, the frustration level would be similar to that if it was a cyclist , I mean the time it will take you to get to the destination is delayed by the same amount, BUT you would show more restraint to the horse cart dude because its not a regular occurrence nor can he easily move to the side, cyclists piss motorist off on a daily basis, rightly or wrong so, so they get shat on more. And the self entitlement attitude shown also doesn't help. "I WILL ride here because I am allowed too". If everybody did do what they were allowed to, there would be chaos! Consideration needs to be shown, compromises made etc.... Just because you are allowed to ride in the middle of the road does not mean you should.There is also the common sense aspect, just because I am allowed and have a god given right to walk through JHB CBD at midnight doesn't mean I am going to. I am by no means saying the motorist are right, they are not, but the reality of it is many motorists have a perception of cyclists being arrogant inconsiderate road users, because some are! Thats why I make a point of always saying thanks to motorists who give me a gap, even if I see they make an effort to just pass me a little wider than usual I make sure to thank them, I have said it before, positive reinforcement is a powerful tool you're confusing issues as usual.Motoriss perception of cyclists in general is based on a ignorance and a lack of awareness of the law. I still have ot had an answer from tubesoeker to which raods he would suggest we ride in Cape Town since none in the Southern Suburbs have a shoulder and are strictlyspeaking safe for cyclists hence we rely on the type of co-operation and patience shown in Rhodes Drive. So what is it about the incident that actually annoyed soeker? Because th argument about cycle safety and finding other rads to drive sounds like the type of News24 argument that is commonly levelled at cyclists.
Patchelicious Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 you're confusing issues as usual.Motoriss perception of cyclists in general is based on a ignorance and a lack of awareness of the law. I still have ot had an answer from tubesoeker to which raods he would suggest we ride in Cape Town since none in the Southern Suburbs have a shoulder and are strictlyspeaking safe for cyclists hence we rely on the type of co-operation and patience shown in Rhodes Drive. So what is it about the incident that actually annoyed soeker? Because th argument about cycle safety and finding other rads to drive sounds like the type of News24 argument that is commonly levelled at cyclists.Are you drunk? The issue is very simple. Your spelling and grammar is however.... NOT. Edit: My post was not in response to you, I wouldn't waste my time trying to engage with you.
GoLefty!! Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 I'll bite: How is making a comment going by when it is safe to do so and giving over 2 meters of space to the cyclist, bad driving in the world of Lefty? Dude, I think the point of behaving like a pinhead because you feel in the right to do so and doing it out of conscious choice might be lost in translation, based on the manner of your argument. It is everyone's choice to cycle wherever and whenever they like, which is why we all started cycling in the first place, not so? How difficult is it however to assess the risks involved for a specific set of road conditions though and make a better choice? It would be obvious to most of us, yet here you and I are arguing this out eh? Nevertheless, Lefty to confirm this for you, please go and cycle wherever you like whenever you like too, but know that if you choose to do it on Rhodes Drive heading towards Hout Bay during peak morning traffic and the oncoming lane has no let up to allow cars behind get by you and there is no way possible for you to maintain traffic flow conditions, you will become that much of a hinderance that someone who has no issues with using bad driving behaviour is probably going to use you as a speed bump. Just to clear up any further confusion. Will that person be me? No, I genuinely care about the plight of cyclists and their safety and even give pinheads the required space to keep riding safely. Will I be saddened if it happened by some other motorist? It is my nature to be this way for every single incident like this. Will it come as a surprise based on the prevailing road conditions? Not so much.because to make the comment you took your eyes off the road, a busy as you mentioned with lots of traffic coming on in the opposite direction. or do you wind the window down, and have words with cyclists while looking straight ahead.
GoLefty!! Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 Are you drunk? The issue is very simple. Your spelling and grammar is however.... NOT. Edit: My post was not in response to you, I wouldn't waste my time trying to engage with you. Yes the issue is very simple. The road belongs to cyclists and motorists. No matter what hat you wearing, the rules and have to be obeyed.Cyclist was likely within the 1m of the shoulder as given to him by the law. Soeker passed by at over 2m (?) which means he was on the other side of the road while driving and looking at 90 degree to the direction of travel to make a comment that would have taken a few seconds.since he was not checking a blind spot I'd say he was driving recklessly in order to remonstrate with a law abiding road user. Who should actually be ranting? and where is this cyclist to defend himself? instead we have the usual Hub justice from the usual suspects. BTW you did waste time to respond....just like you will read this post
Shebeen Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 Yes the issue is very simple. The road belongs to cyclists and motorists. No matter what hat you wearing, the rules and have to be obeyed.Cyclist was likely within the 1m of the shoulder as given to him by the law. Soeker passed by at over 2m (?) which means he was on the other side of the road while driving and looking at 90 degree to the direction of travel to make a comment that would have taken a few seconds.since he was not checking a blind spot I'd say he was driving recklessly in order to remonstrate with a law abiding road user. Who should actually be ranting? and where is this cyclist to defend himself? instead we have the usual Hub justice from the usual suspects. BTW you did waste time to respond....just like you will read this postthey live among us.....
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