davem Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 South African non drafting races have lots of complaints about big packs. Too many athletes on the course. Too small gaps between start waves. Too few referees. All explanations used to justify what is an athlete's decision to break the rules and cheat. IM Durban 70.3 seems to have taken drafting to new heights from the race reports. Referees will always struggle to enforce rules where the penalty is seen as not significant. Getting to recover for four minutes is obviously not harsh enough for athletes to choose to comply with the rules. I believe we need to create an attitude where every athlete chooses to obey the rules of the sport and loses the 'let see what I can get away with' approach. At Challenge Roth they pioneered a new penalty system for people caught drafting. It is called the "Fair Kilometer" Instead of sending an athlete to the penalty box for 8 minutes if he or she is given a black (drafting) card, the participants gets to combine a 5-minute penalty with an additional running penalty, This penalty is an additional 1km loop off the main course (read: loop of shame) and has to be done at kilometer 30 of the run course. Sounds like a very emphatic penalty to me. Something to be really afraid of. What do you think?
ratherberidin' Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 That should scare 'em. Think people need the attitude of "look what I can do on my own" vs "look what I can get away with" , but that's not something we can achieve until the NSA releases a mind control app for my iPhone. Until then, let them run!
Grebel Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 *Snip* I believe we need to create an attitude where every athlete chooses to obey the rules of the sport and loses the 'let see what I can get away with' approach. *Snip* Replace Athlete with Citizen and Sport with country and I believe that you've just described 90% of our population..... Sorry for the hijack...
IceCreamMan Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 Not sure how one would stop this effectively... what I am pretty sure of though is that 95% of those that were drafting probably did not start the day thinking how much time they are going to save by drafting. It was impossible to get away from other riders 100% of the time. i don't think its a mentality of "look what i can get away with" or done with the intention of cheating.... it just sorta happens and where you find yourself. If one had to be honest on sunday, 99% of all athletes would of run that extra kilometer.... as it is i only saw one cyclist penalized by a ref, this while a peleton of at least 30 was cycling the other way towards ballito...
SwissVan Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 South African non drafting races have lots of complaints about big packs. Too many athletes on the course. Too small gaps between start waves. Too few referees. All explanations used to justify what is an athlete's decision to break the rules and cheat. IM Durban 70.3 seems to have taken drafting to new heights from the race reports. Referees will always struggle to enforce rules where the penalty is seen as not significant. Getting to recover for four minutes is obviously not harsh enough for athletes to choose to comply with the rules. I believe we need to create an attitude where every athlete chooses to obey the rules of the sport and loses the 'let see what I can get away with' approach. At Challenge Roth they pioneered a new penalty system for people caught drafting. It is called the "Fair Kilometer" Instead of sending an athlete to the penalty box for 8 minutes if he or she is given a black (drafting) card, the participants gets to combine a 5-minute penalty with an additional running penalty, This penalty is an additional 1km loop off the main course (read: loop of shame) and has to be done at kilometer 30 of the run course. Sounds like a very emphatic penalty to me. Something to be really afraid of. What do you think? Personally I detest drafting and trust me its not only a problem in SA, I've done 3 IM events and a number of standard tri's here in switz and its bad. I don't think the run of shame thing will be severe enough, rather instant DQ and if you have more than 1 DQ in a year you are not allowed to enter another event in the next 12 months. Only problem is if the race ref gets it wrong and you get a drafting penalty when you don't deserve it, it happens.... I know it wont happen, and I can see long distance tri going the way of Olympic allowing or turning a blind eye to age groupers
TriandDu Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 If a person is caught drafting then they would serve a penalty and have 1 km additional added to the run, this could also be amended with another 1km added, that means an additional 2 km and a time penalty as well. So 1st time caught drafting 5 min penalty and 1km run added 2nd offence a 5 min penalty and an additional 1km run, therefore 2km extra, and 3rd offence DQ
Pure Savage Posted August 4, 2015 Posted August 4, 2015 I think it should not be more running, they should have to get back into speedo at the end of run and swim another 200m.
davem Posted August 4, 2015 Author Posted August 4, 2015 Not sure how one would stop this effectively... what I am pretty sure of though is that 95% of those that were drafting probably did not start the day thinking how much time they are going to save by drafting. It was impossible to get away from other riders 100% of the time. i don't think its a mentality of "look what i can get away with" or done with the intention of cheating.... it just sorta happens and where you find yourself. If one had to be honest on sunday, 99% of all athletes would of run that extra kilometer.... as it is i only saw one cyclist penalized by a ref, this while a peleton of at least 30 was cycling the other way towards ballito... Durban I think was partly due to overloading of the course. Do the organisers care? 70.3 World Championships in Clearwater, Florida was talked about with derision for years because it was a draft fest. Lots of good athletes were not bothered to go because of the reputation. Ironman then took the event away from them. Will IMSA limit the Durban entries to an appropriate amount, get a better course or get a longer use of the M4 so they can spread out the starts by a lot of time. All that costs money. I think in general it is very much "Ooh, no one's looking, hey it's easier if I sit on this oke's wheel who just passed me." My reference point is that I grew up racing sail boats. The rules are complex when boats meet as to who has right of way. The unique aspect of the rules, compared to any other sport that I know, is that a sailor can exonerate his rule infringement by taking a self inflicted penalty. (Generally performing two full turns). No referees required. Integrity is. Where there are unresolved disputes, a protest procedure with penalty of disqualification exists. 99% of disputes are resolved by the sailors themselves on the water.
SwissVan Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 Durban I think was partly due to overloading of the course. Do the organisers care? 70.3 World Championships in Clearwater, Florida was talked about with derision for years because it was a draft fest. Lots of good athletes were not bothered to go because of the reputation. Ironman then took the event away from them. Will IMSA limit the Durban entries to an appropriate amount, get a better course or get a longer use of the M4 so they can spread out the starts by a lot of time. All that costs money. I think in general it is very much "Ooh, no one's looking, hey it's easier if I sit on this oke's wheel who just passed me." My reference point is that I grew up racing sail boats. The rules are complex when boats meet as to who has right of way. The unique aspect of the rules, compared to any other sport that I know, is that a sailor can exonerate his rule infringement by taking a self inflicted penalty. (Generally performing two full turns). No referees required. Integrity is. Where there are unresolved disputes, a protest procedure with penalty of disqualification exists. 99% of disputes are resolved by the sailors themselves on the water. That's the main cause is to many participants...even on the longer distance events the fields don't get spread out sufficiently or quick enough and it becomes very difficult to maintain the 5 bikes gap without continually slowing down, which just makes the situation worse as the person behind you then overtakes.... Integrity...LOL wont work either, it simply becomes a "monkey see monkey do ..if you cant beat them join them" situation One solution would be to make the cycle routes all uphill....
Capricorn Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 my contribution:add garmin varia radars to all bikes. if you within draft range, it makes a godawefull noise and registers the infraction. Proof you deserve the sinbin. All those with electronic drivetrains have their gearing autoshifted to rubbish ratios as well. Maybe get the sinbin.
Snytjie Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 Tough one this. I agree with many above that the size of the field is the main problem: it causes 'unintentional' drafting as well as provide the opportunity for dishonest competitors to break the rules on purpose. I don't see field size decreasing at all as it underlies all the financial arguments for allowing/sponsoring/broadcasting a race. I don't concern myself with drafting amongst the mid-of-packers where I spend my race time. I don't have the emotional energy to get upset about pricks when I concentrate on doing my best. I don't draft as long as it is within my control and have peace of mind. I measure my progress in the sport by my age-group position and accept that my proxy includes drafting as a constant: I never competed in a race where there was no drafting. If I was competing for podiums/Kona slots etc, then I would have a problem. The only solution I can think of is to enlarge the 'elite' waves so that all serious contenders can get away from the masses and be clearly showed up when they draft. For the rest I'm happy with the approach at EL this year: don't hackle the age-groupers when drafting brings them no advantage (e.g. going up hill), but step in when it does and very strong so when people intentionally does so. Just assigning default harsh penalties without context won't suffice and might very well cause me to get DQed from a race that I trained for for more than a year when it is not necessarily my fault. And yes, more refs and well designed courses that keep the risk of bunching in mind.
Garfield2010 Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 There was drafting. Mostly from the leading age group athletes. There was about 25 athletes in there and they drafted as if it was a road race. For me personally it does not matter as I race for myself and will never be an age group contender. Why do I care if they draft. It is however a dangerous thing to do and could lead to crashes so do it at your own risk. The rolling start was awesome and I don't know what more they could have done in terms of this. I can only imagine increasing the amount of motorcycles on the route. I have mentioned this before and will again. They should make use of smaller motorcycles that runs silently. The drafting groups normally scatter when they hear the motorcycle.
Zeffer Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 If my understanding is correct, internationally all triathlon/duathlon road events up to 5150 will from 2016 become draft legal - the ITU races this year already implemented this. Correct? Remember how Murray and them never caught the leaders in most races, the swim become critical if you want to be competitive. Then this problem only remains with IM and such longer races...
Patchelicious Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 How about using on GoPro footage of the drafters? Post the pics/videos of them.... might deter a few?
davem Posted August 5, 2015 Author Posted August 5, 2015 How about using on GoPro footage of the drafters? Post the pics/videos of them.... might deter a few? Ironman does not allow any sort of recording device in the event. To protect their media rights.
IceCreamMan Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 if you look at the official footage of the event released by ironman you can see scores of drafting going on....its not the detection of it that is the issue...its the policing
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