MintSauce Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Regarding someone's comments of how their new carbon bike compared to their old DHC, you have to keep in mind how 'normal' steel has progressed and improved over the years. I've never ridden a carbon road bike, not even around the parking lot. My first road bike about 4-5 years ago was an 80's Bianchi. I thought it was awesome, until I stumbled upon a similar age Colnago Master Olympic. I could not believe the difference it made in feel and response. The Bianchi felt like a complete piece of ****....heavy and dead and unresponsive. The Colnago was ever so slightly to big, so when the opportunity arose, I switched to a late 90's (possibly 1999-2000 model) Eddy Merckx. This honestly blew the Colnago out the water. Early in 2014, I decided to fulfil a dream and ordered a new road bike from Dave Mercer. I realise some people might think this is one of those instances where the new bike you've just bought is obviously the greatest thing ever. I assure you this is not the case. The Eddy Merckx was still built up when I got my Mercer and I was able to ride them back to back. Admittedly, it is hard to compare apples with apples in this instance since I went from Campy 10 speed, ali bars, ali rims with 23c tyres to Shimano Di2, carbon bars, carbon fork, carbon rims and 25c tyres, but the difference in comfort, response and feel are VAST! We're not even talking about fit yet, which is probably the most notable factor. Most importantly, is the simply unbeatable experience of buying something that is, in ever possible way, made to measure and specified exactly as you want it. When I look at my bike, I think to myself, that is the MOST BEAUTIFUL bike in the world. And of course, to me it would be, because I 'made' (read:specified) it myself according to my personal tastes and then Dave (who happens to be a good friend) built it with LOVE. Yes, I said it. I have never met a guy as passionate and LOVING about bicycles. I promise you, it will be the greatest buying experience of your life! If you want more info, you can read the piece I wrote for Dave's blog:http://mercerbikes.co.za/the-kenny-story/
gummibear Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 In the latest cycling plus magazine there was a group review of high end steel bikes. I don't have the magazine with me now but I recall the conclusion being that none of the bikes can compete with the newest carbon endurance bikes like the trek domane for comfort or performance making it a sentimental buy. The Colnago Master was silky to ride but spongy to accelerate as an example. The more expensive the steel frame the closer you will get to ticking all the boxes like comfort and acceleration but it will be very very expensive to compete with high end carbon endurance frames. Very desirable bikes to own and ride but mainly for their character which is also very important.Not all steel is equal and not all carbon is equal. I have a Look cf road bike and a steel road bike and very similar in spec and size. The Look is very very stiff but after a 3-4 hour ride I am shattered.With the steel frame I feel like a can go for hours. Wheels make a big difference to.I've seen guys complain that their steel bikes are spongy but they have cheap low spoke count wheels on. My Ritchey has hand built 32 hole wheels and the ride is great but accelerates a little slow.With my Zipps on it perks up quite a bit and climbs like a bomb. Carbon is a racing bike for where seconds count on the climb.That said you could easily build a Cinelli XCR stainless frame into a 6.8kg climbing monster. Steel is real and the frames have a soul[emoji106]
Butterbean Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Like they said above, the progress in steel road frames has progressed. You are able to make a steel frame as stiff and responsive as carbon, as maybe lose out on 500grams of weight. The ritchey, for instance, is as responsive as the carbon bikes I've ridden. The tech behind it, for instance, is the following: Steel made by Tange to Tom ritcheys specifications A billet head tube, ie, milled out of a solid block instead of formed. It's thread less too. The seattube is ovalised near the bottom bracket, which leads to extremely good stiffness despite it being a steel frame. All in all, I traded my carbon race rig for the most comfortable and pleasurable ride ever. It loves long distance, it's climbs beautifully, and handles 1500 watt sprints with ease. And for the cost, it's a no brainer as the bike to have I you're not at the sharp end of the Tour de France.
Eldron Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Thanks to all for comments so far (DM's site has some seriously sexy bikes on it!). In the interest of harnessing the collective genius of The Hub, what's the view of the gap between 'modern' steel and 'comfort carbons'? Does the gap exist? How big is the compromise? Cost penalty? And any other Friday comments you feel appropriate..... I have mixed feelings about the "comfort carbons". Carbon is an awesome frame building material because you can shape it almost infinitely so the material is not the problem. The problem is in the "vogueness" - comfort carbons are the in thing at the moment so I reckon you're going to pay a premium to get one. You will never get a comfort carbon for the ~R14k that DW will charge you for a custom steel ride. Comfort carbon will be double that I reckon. Get DW to build you a 27.2mm seat post bike though. I don't see the logic in buying a steel bike then going for bigger diameter (stiffer) steel like the 31.6mm stuff. Makes no sense to me. Steel is an awesome material...if it evokes some kind of emotion in you. Guys like Falco (no insult intended) don't "get it". Steel is great for touring, chilled long rides with your mates etc but it will never match carbon in the weight or efficiency department. Sprinting on steel is fun - when you look between your legs you can see the wheels at 15 degrees to each other :-) Snakey snakey down the road...
gummibear Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Only carbon bike i've ever ridden that came close to steel was a Z3 PARLEE but @ $6000 for for the frame it aint going to happen.
Hairy Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Regarding someone's comments of how their new carbon bike compared to their old DHC, you have to keep in mind how 'normal' steel has progressed and improved over the years. I've never ridden a carbon road bike, not even around the parking lot. My first road bike about 4-5 years ago was an 80's Bianchi. I thought it was awesome, until I stumbled upon a similar age Colnago Master Olympic. I could not believe the difference it made in feel and response. The Bianchi felt like a complete piece of ****....heavy and dead and unresponsive. The Colnago was ever so slightly to big, so when the opportunity arose, I switched to a late 90's (possibly 1999-2000 model) Eddy Merckx. This honestly blew the Colnago out the water. Early in 2014, I decided to fulfil a dream and ordered a new road bike from Dave Mercer. I realise some people might think this is one of those instances where the new bike you've just bought is obviously the greatest thing ever. I assure you this is not the case. The Eddy Merckx was still built up when I got my Mercer and I was able to ride them back to back. Admittedly, it is hard to compare apples with apples in this instance since I went from Campy 10 speed, ali bars, ali rims with 23c tyres to Shimano Di2, carbon bars, carbon fork, carbon rims and 25c tyres, but the difference in comfort, response and feel are VAST! We're not even talking about fit yet, which is probably the most notable factor. Most importantly, is the simply unbeatable experience of buying something that is, in ever possible way, made to measure and specified exactly as you want it. When I look at my bike, I think to myself, that is the MOST BEAUTIFUL bike in the world. And of course, to me it would be, because I 'made' (read:specified) it myself according to my personal tastes and then Dave (who happens to be a good friend) built it with LOVE. Yes, I said it. I have never met a guy as passionate and LOVING about bicycles. I promise you, it will be the greatest buying experience of your life! If you want more info, you can read the piece I wrote for Dave's blog:http://mercerbikes.co.za/the-kenny-story/great read and lovely bike build!
Fat Boab Posted August 21, 2015 Author Posted August 21, 2015 Thanks again to all for their views. I think, what I have gleaned from the suggestions and advice, is that steel, be it custom or 'mass produced', will be on my must try-out list alongside a comfort carbon or two, as and when the cycling gods allow me to increase to (n+1). Thanks again...
tracknut Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Regarding someone's comments of how their new carbon bike compared to their old DHC, you have to keep in mind how 'normal' steel has progressed and improved over the years. I've never ridden a carbon road bike, not even around the parking lot. My first road bike about 4-5 years ago was an 80's Bianchi. I thought it was awesome, until I stumbled upon a similar age Colnago Master Olympic. I could not believe the difference it made in feel and response. The Bianchi felt like a complete piece of ****....heavy and dead and unresponsive. The Colnago was ever so slightly to big, so when the opportunity arose, I switched to a late 90's (possibly 1999-2000 model) Eddy Merckx. This honestly blew the Colnago out the water. Early in 2014, I decided to fulfil a dream and ordered a new road bike from Dave Mercer. I realise some people might think this is one of those instances where the new bike you've just bought is obviously the greatest thing ever. I assure you this is not the case. The Eddy Merckx was still built up when I got my Mercer and I was able to ride them back to back. Admittedly, it is hard to compare apples with apples in this instance since I went from Campy 10 speed, ali bars, ali rims with 23c tyres to Shimano Di2, carbon bars, carbon fork, carbon rims and 25c tyres, but the difference in comfort, response and feel are VAST! We're not even talking about fit yet, which is probably the most notable factor. Most importantly, is the simply unbeatable experience of buying something that is, in ever possible way, made to measure and specified exactly as you want it. When I look at my bike, I think to myself, that is the MOST BEAUTIFUL bike in the world. And of course, to me it would be, because I 'made' (read:specified) it myself according to my personal tastes and then Dave (who happens to be a good friend) built it with LOVE. Yes, I said it. I have never met a guy as passionate and LOVING about bicycles. I promise you, it will be the greatest buying experience of your life! If you want more info, you can read the piece I wrote for Dave's blog:http://mercerbikes.co.za/the-kenny-story/I have ridden steel bikes a lot on long rides and agree with mint sauce. I've never had the luxury of having a bike tailor made, but have several steel bikes in the same size, but they differ in geometry in subtle ways that make only 2 of them really comfortable for long hauls. I don't believe that the weight difference is an issue, a top end carbon bike will be 1000 grams lighter than a classic lightweight steel bike. I think how the bike fits to be the most important, then the wheelset, then the equipment.
rock Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Qhubeka-Buffalo-Bicycle-Diag1-1024x724.jpg Steel frame with comfort geometry, reasonably priced and reliable, on hard training days you can load the wife (or two girlfriends) on the back and when asked you can tell people you ride an MTN Qhubeka bike TGIF off topic but seeing as though the opening Vuelta TTT is to be neutralised, the team should ride these.
V12man Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Thanks again to all for their views. I think, what I have gleaned from the suggestions and advice, is that steel, be it custom or 'mass produced', will be on my must try-out list alongside a comfort carbon or two, as and when the cycling gods allow me to increase to (n+1). Thanks again...Here is a view from the sidelines.... go with a custom carbon frame.... http://www.craddockcycles.co.uk/ The blue one on the front page is my mate Adam's bike - just finished... looks better in real life than the pictures.
Hairy Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 somehow http://rittecycles.com/ have always gotten my heart to beat a little faster!
Hairy Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 And then you just get sexy http://www.cycleexif.com/stelbel-sb03#more-19208 http://cycleexifcom.c.presscdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Stelbel-sb03-disc-.jpg http://cycleexifcom.c.presscdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Stelbel-sb03-disc-10.jpg
Ryanpmb Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Thanks again to all for their views. I think, what I have gleaned from the suggestions and advice, is that steel, be it custom or 'mass produced', will be on my must try-out list alongside a comfort carbon or two, as and when the cycling gods allow me to increase to (n+1). Thanks again...Can't believe I didn't spot this thread and take part earlier. Much of what I would've said has been mentioned by fellow steel enthusiasts. All my bikes are steel frames (including the wife's). Not sure where you are based but you're welcome to meet and join me for a ride and take one or two for a spin... Get an actual reference to add to all the opinions.
Frosty Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 somehow http://rittecycles.com/ have always gotten my heart to beat a little faster! Have you seen this video? https://www.bikehub.co.za/index.php?/topic/147339-Steel-is-real-build.&do=findComment&comment=2674768
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