New Zealand - The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

[patches]

While we're doing some comparisons between income and spending between SA and NZ, how would you guys see salaries compared like for like between the country's.

 

I saw above mention of R750k would roughly translate to R1.2M ($110k) in NZ.  Not sure if this was just used for the purposes of the example, but what are your guys thoughts on this?  I'm sure it would differ from industry to industry.

 

Oh I just made those number up 

 

Just kidding! As you say, it is largely industry dependent, and my point of reference is consulting engineers. Some professions here (like construction trades) get paid a lot more (not only as an equivalent, but also proportionate to others).

 

I must also add that I am about 5yrs out-of-touch with SA salaries so did rely on an online source for that R750k.

 

So all that in mind, here are some indicators that may help.

 

 

As you can see in the above, the range is vast. From senior engineers being the closest (at about 1.6x) to minimum wage showing the biggest disparity (at over 13x).

 

Other factors should be taken into account, like the fact that the NZ effective tax scale is lower, expenses like insurances are a fraction of SA, and in the case of medical aid, it isn't even considered essential as the public health system is very capable. And schooling is basically  free.

 

But all that aside, I guess the general idea is that the higher up the SA payscale you are, the less drastic the the jump will be when moving to a similar role in NZ.

 

Teachers (and nurses) are a noteworthy one though. These are professionals with essential careers, who have 3yrs+ study under them, and their salaries can jump 3-4x in NZ. And believe it or not, they are considered underpaid here! So teacher's salaries in SA are outright criminal!

 

Once again, these are just estimates from searches and experience, and I am pretty out of touch with salaries and cost of living in SA, but the data above was as accurate as I could find.

 

I've often estimated that cost of living in NZ (with the exception of housing, especially Auckland) is about 1.5x that of SA. So again, those higher up the payscale will not notice a massive upgrade in disposable income and luxury lifestyle. Some even notice a slight downgrade (but there are other benefits that money cannot buy).

Edited October 8, 2020 by patches

[arabsandals]

While we're doing some comparisons between income and spending between SA and NZ, how would you guys see salaries compared like for like between the country's.

 

I saw above mention of R750k would roughly translate to R1.2M ($110k) in NZ.  Not sure if this was just used for the purposes of the example, but what are your guys thoughts on this?  I'm sure it would differ from industry to industry.

You can't translate salaries like that, it's meaningless because you're not factoring in cost of living which has a massive impact on salaries; you have to compare what it costs to live there against what you would expect to earn.Just use numbeo for cost of living comparison, then check some salary surveys covering your profession. 

[davetapson]

You can't translate salaries like that, it's meaningless because you're not factoring in cost of living which has a massive impact on salaries; you have to compare what it costs to live there against what you would expect to earn.Just use numbeo for cost of living comparison, then check some salary surveys covering your profession. 

Yeah, ZARs to whatever just doesn't work.  Life is just different.

 

There are things that you just can't put $ value to.

 

Security of economy, security of family, freedom to just walk around without fear of violence. 

 

Kids being expected to walk to school, not expected **not** to walk to school...

 

Wife sleeps at night when I'm not there, not the case in SA.

 

I used to tell my wife "You know what our friends overseas major concerns are at the moment?  What they're going to do on the weekend".  That's pretty much exactly how it is.  All that stress that hangs over you - just gone.

 

I voted today.  The choice was a couple of parties all slightly one side or the other of centre. Wouldn't be tragedy if any of them got in.  Not like the complete waste of time it is in SA.

[Wayne Potgieter]

Offer fell through. Was not happy with some of the dealings of the developer and have decided to withdraw our offer of the house in Wanaka. Will have to keep looking.

 

Any suggestions?

 

If you could live anywhere in NZ, where would you live and why?

 

• Must have access to a airport (a proper one)
• Must have good schools
• Must not look like ****.

 

 

[RossW]

 

Offer fell through. Was not happy with some of the dealings of the developer and have decided to withdraw our offer of the house in Wanaka. Will have to keep looking.

 

Any suggestions?

 

If you could live anywhere in NZ, where would you live and why?

 

• Must have access to a airport (a proper one)
• Must have good schools
• Must not look like ****.

 

Why not a different development/developer in Wanaka? Sounds like the town/area is the happy place for your family.

[patches]

 

Offer fell through. Was not happy with some of the dealings of the developer and have decided to withdraw our offer of the house in Wanaka. Will have to keep looking.

 

Any suggestions?

 

If you could live anywhere in NZ, where would you live and why?

 

• Must have access to a airport (a proper one)
• Must have good schools
• Must not look like ****.

 

 

Sorry to hear Wayne.

 

Last weekend I was down in Christchurch and Hanmer Springs and I had a very similar chat with my better half.

 

Our list was:

 

• South Island
• Outdoor lifestyle
• Within 1hr of an international airport (her parents are in Sydney)
• Decent healthcare (ideally an acute services hospital within 1hr)
• Good schools (for future rugrats)
• Decent university (not essential, but when future rugrats grow up, they have the option to stay at home and study if they want. Although Kiwis love to study "out-of-state).

Then my additions

• A Bunnings/Mitre10 (also not essential, but will make life a lot easier as I am always busy with something)
• Accessible dirt bike trails.
• within 1hr of a shuttle/lifted bike park.

Taking all that into account, there is only really 1 place which checks ALL the boxes... Christchurch (I may have skewed the criteria to favour Chch )

 

But

 

Forgo the uni then Queenstown (incl. Frankton and surrounds) and Wanaka are options

Forgo the hospital, uni, Bunnings, and settle for acceptable schools then Tarras, Cromwell & Alexandra are an option

Forgo the international airport then Nelson & Richmond are options.

 

Our wish lists are not too dissimilar. Christchurch may not be the most attractive or have that "sought after town" appeal, but it can check all the boxes. My area pics would be Huntsbury, Cashmere, Merrivale, Fendleton, or maybe even over the Port Hills and somewhere like Governor's Bay.

 

Although I know you looked at Christchurch and schools were the concern.

 

A 4ha+plot of land in Cromwell (or a house in Mt Pisa) would also be high up on my list.

Edited October 9, 2020 by patches

[davetapson]

I'm a bit ignorant of SI, but the one thing I have noticed is that everyone who has lived in CHC that I've spoken to says "blah blah blah but I loved living there..."

[davetapson]

Gah - we've just had notice that our rental house is for sale - tenancy is until Feb, but looking for a house in Feb is chronic. 

 

This we know because our previous house was sold out from under us in Feb.

Second time it's happened.

 

I suspect they are looking for the FOMO prices going around at the moment, and I also suspect it will be way out of our price range to buy.

[Wayne Potgieter]

Gah - we've just had notice that our rental house is for sale - tenancy is until Feb, but looking for a house in Feb is chronic. 

 

This we know because our previous house was sold out from under us in Feb.

 

Second time it's happened.

 

I suspect they are looking for the FOMO prices going around at the moment, and I also suspect it will be way out of our price range to buy.

This is one of the bigger downsides of renting, the place gets pulled out from under you.

 

Has happened to us to and it sucks.

 

Should we all start a weird gloriavale style community together? Only religion allowed is bikes.

[davetapson]

This is one of the bigger downsides of renting, the place gets pulled out from under you.

 

Has happened to us to and it sucks.

 

Should we all start a weird gloriavale style community together? Only religion allowed is bikes.

Sounds like Jatniel.

 

We're considering it. Had a beer or possibly two with another saffa dad from the kids school and we discussed buying a section and building two or three houses on it - one each for us, third to sell to go towards the cost of the thing.

 

Only problem is financing rental and build at the same time.  

 

If you do what you were planning to do, it's only deposit down and then rest at completion, normally.

 

We should probably do something like that.

[Wayne Potgieter]

Sounds like Jatniel.

 

We're considering it. Had a beer or possibly two with another saffa dad from the kids school and we discussed buying a section and building two or three houses on it - one each for us, third to sell to go towards the cost of the thing.

 

Only problem is financing rental and build at the same time.  

 

If you do what you were planning to do, it's only deposit down and then rest at completion, normally.

 

We should probably do something like that.

Correct.

 

Most land and build is 10% down, balance on Certificate of Completion.

 

If you buy your own land, you start paying the mortgage on the land immediately, then you appoint a builder and there are normally 6 progress payments during the build. So you need to have the residual cash through the month to increase those costs. 

 

In your scenario, it would make sense to buy the land. Then the two of you collectively share the 6 increasing payments on the 3rd property to sell and realise the profit. Then that can be used to help soften the blow, but that is still big money and very time consuming. It can take ages to get all the consents etc.

 

I still believe land and build is the best way.

 

My idea was always to buy our primary residence land and build. Hopefully it appreciates once built quite quickly and there is equity in the house and we leverage that equity to buy a smaller land and build for investment and to keep doing that until there are 3 houses. one main one and two little rentals.

 

Subsidise the rentals and settle them in a 15 year max window and then gift them to the kids on the following conditions:

 

1. You cannot sell the house without our approval.

2. Any rental income is your or you choose to live in it.

3. Costs associated are your problem.

 

I think that would be a pretty good start to their adult lives, but it all hinges on the properties growing and there is some uncertainty there.

[davetapson]

Correct.

 

Most land and build is 10% down, balance on Certificate of Completion.

 

If you buy your own land, you start paying the mortgage on the land immediately, then you appoint a builder and there are normally 6 progress payments during the build. So you need to have the residual cash through the month to increase those costs. 

 

In your scenario, it would make sense to buy the land. Then the two of you collectively share the 6 increasing payments on the 3rd property to sell and realise the profit. Then that can be used to help soften the blow, but that is still big money and very time consuming. It can take ages to get all the consents etc.

 

I still believe land and build is the best way.

 

My idea was always to buy our primary residence land and build. Hopefully it appreciates once built quite quickly and there is equity in the house and we leverage that equity to buy a smaller land and build for investment and to keep doing that until there are 3 houses. one main one and two little rentals.

 

Subsidise the rentals and settle them in a 15 year max window and then gift them to the kids on the following conditions:

 

1. You cannot sell the house without our approval.

2. Any rental income is your or you choose to live in it.

3. Costs associated are your problem.

 

I think that would be a pretty good start to their adult lives, but it all hinges on the properties growing and there is some uncertainty there.

Yep, spot on.

 

My boet lived in Aus for a fair while, and his observation of his Aus mates (pretty much all in academia) who were wealthy and those that were not was that the wealthy ones tended to have been given a house or a good chunk of deposit for one by their parents, and hence had that disposable income to do other things than pay the bank.

 

It's a hell of an advantage you can give your kids if you can swing it.

[Spurs]

Thanks for all the responses!

 

My question is really geared towards what I should be asking for as a salary for a like for like switch between the 2 countries, trying to equip myself to ensure I don't sell myself short.  Although I would take a cut (relative) if it meant I could secure the move sooner rather than later.  I am a senior in the IT systems engineering space, and my current expectation was an increase of 20%, but based on above perhaps it should be more.

 

I understand that there are many factors to consider, however at the end of the day my motivation for the question was to set myself a target for negotiations.

[davetapson]

Oh, ok.

 

Here you go...

 

https://www.roberthalf.co.nz/research-insights/salary-guide

[davetapson]

Just been at another auction for a real fixer-upperer in Torbay.  Nice property, the house essentially unlivable.

Chatted to agent before, who did fixer-uppering, and he reckoned buyer interest (mainly developers) was 800's, he reckoned he'd maybe go to 950k if it was him, fix it up for 150k and have probably 1.2M value once done.

Went for $1.114M.

Property market at the moment is astonishing. Hard to know if it's a bubble or the new normal.

House didn't even have a staircase between bottom and top floors.  Had a spiral staircase like you might find in a submarine, but probably smaller.

[hayleyearth]

Talking about disposable income and drive your boat to work day, I saw one of these rock out of the sea at Takapuna, and head off up the road.

 

I need one.

About 2 months ago this company was looking for a new engineer/manager. I told my partner to apply (he is boat crazy), but then he just said "it's got a motor"....(he is sailboat crazy).

 

Many of those around where I stayb and yes the owners drive them from home to the boat ramp.