Skubarra Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 Jeez guys... I've had enough of all this doping talk, pro's and former pros. I'm off to The Gear Change for a coffee. I see what you did there... T-Bob 1
jcza Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 Ozone treatment - in my opinion it's similar to snake oil - there are no ozone treatment machines that I am aware of in any ER I work in - it's very much regarded as complimentary medicine - perhaps useful in some things, but if you need more oxygen in the tissues, then pure oxygen via a mask works pretty well - and in any case will NOT raise the levels of Hb etc at all - you need EPO or sustained LOW 02 levels to do that (which works via the natural verson of epo anyway) HGH as a therapy has a place for sure in the treatment of certain medical conditions, (cosmetic and othewise) but I certainly don't believe there is abslutely no risk attatched to it's use - especially during unqualified and unmanaged treatment - I suspect that any Vet that actually uses it knows full well they are cheating - and I make no comment on their morals that allow this - clearly I don't believe that it's medically advisable - perhaps when I am 20 years older I might change my mind. Let me place on record I am rabidly against PEDS use for non medical teatments, and if you want to make me angry let me meet the people who supply non pharmaceutical and veterinary grade steroids to schoolkids (and this is a HUGE problem, both in SA and worldwide - compared to this, doping in cycling is a trivial problem....) Now I am off to breathe deeply and try to get my BP down - just thinking about kids steroid useage has annoyed me badly (again). Doc does the ozone treatment not involve blood transfusion using patients own blood which automatically makes it illegal in terms of WADA code?
shawnvan Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 Sorry if its already been said, but what really grates me about KE's response is his "I'm the victim approach"... Fact: 1. he received ozone therapy and blood transfusions (admittedly for a legitimate medical treatment). Unfortunately for him, the WADA code says this = doping.2. He knows this is dodgy, so applies for a TUE in order to race.3. TUE is denied, but decides to race anyway. Regardless of whether or not he received any performance benefits, he KNEW the treatments he received were contrary to the WADA code and amounted to doping. He then blatantly ignores this, races, then plays victim when he gets pinged as he "was faced with a life threatening condition"... As others have said, he wasn't being denied his right to life, only his right to race. And if he moans that he raced for a living, I think that his sponsors and the public would have seen much value in him if he had engaged with WADA / SAIDS and come out publicly at the time and said he had received treatments for a life threatening condition, and was therefore not racing until his ABP values were in order to the satisfaction of authorities, to promote doping awareness and clean cycling. He could have taken the high road, but didn't... Andrew Steer, Shebeen, Grantc and 7 others 10
90 Inch Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) Seems strange that its only the men that dope in SA, when last was a lady rider caught ? Edited January 21, 2016 by 90 Inch
BarHugger Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 Doc does the ozone treatment not involve blood transfusion using patients own blood which automatically makes it illegal in terms of WADA code? No....you get different types of ozone treatments...
Patchelicious Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 Seems strange that its only the men that dope in SA, when last was a lady rider caught ?How dare you!! That statement has sexist undertones! BarHugger 1
Mats Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 No....you get different types of ozone treatments...Did not know that. How do they differ and are all of them illegal?
BDF Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 Stupid question maybe but if Ozone treatment was so effective that it can be called "life saving", why is it not a mainstream medical treatment?
V12man Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 Doc does the ozone treatment not involve blood transfusion using patients own blood which automatically makes it illegal in terms of WADA code? JC - I am not sure - I read the article someone linked - but I have never seen that done in SA - the little I know about ozone therapy in SA seems like quackery to me mostly - and no transfusions are involved. and it's mostly for cosmetic reasons. But yes - in terms of the WADA code, removing and replacing your own blood is an offence - except if done for medical reasons like dialysis, then it should not be an issue - but I would hesitate to say that "ozonating" blood and replacing it is an approved medical procedure - Kevin's docs would have to explain exactly what was done and why (with Kevins permission) - I don't have access to his medical records, and if I did I would be unable to comment at all. jcza 1
jcza Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 JC - I am not sure - I read the article someone linked - but I have never seen that done in SA - the little I know about ozone therapy in SA seems like quackery to me mostly - and no transfusions are involved. and it's mostly for cosmetic reasons. But yes - in terms of the WADA code, removing and replacing your own blood is an offence - except if done for medical reasons like dialysis, then it should not be an issue - but I would hesitate to say that "ozonating" blood and replacing it is an approved medical procedure - Kevin's docs would have to explain exactly what was done and why (with Kevins permission) - I don't have access to his medical records, and if I did I would be unable to comment at all. There was a case where a rider served a 2 year ban for this therapy. I'll try find it, think it was a American CX racer. Not very common. I also haven't seen the release from SAIDS outlining the offence other than its passport related.
BarHugger Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 Thank you, interesting! On the last point. If you as a 45year old decide to dope, you are a poos. If you as a 45 year old make your 15 year old dope, you are a criminal! It's disgusting!Right....I apologise to all you here on hubland before I even begin....But now this post has triggered another one of my pet hates....something I see punishable by law and as criminal as getting your 15 year old to dope...Secondhand smoke..... now if someone properly wants to koer my moer they just have to light up around their kid or any kid....smoke in the car...the house....or drag their kid in to an establishment where they want to go and sit and vreet and suip in the smoking area with their child in tow.... Vurk my man.....nou is ek sommer goed moerig....sorry for the detour folks.... HOEKVLAG, samson99, Mntboy and 7 others 10
jcza Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 From USADA website........... Methods Prohibited At All Times (Both In- and Out-of- Competition) M1. Manipulation of Blood and Blood ComponentsBlood doping, the use of red blood cells from any source, or otherwise artificially enhancing the uptake, transport, or delivery of oxygen, is prohibited. Any type of intravenous (IV) manipulation of the blood or blood components by physical or chemical means is prohibited. Advisory:Supplemental oxygen (e.g. breathing an oxygen rich air mixture temporarily, such as on the side-lines) is not prohibited.Use of hyperbaric or hypobaric tents is permitted. Similarly, training or sleeping/living at high altitudes is permitted.Hemodialysis is prohibited under M1.1, as blood is taken out from the patient (in a closed circuit) and reintroduced into the circulatory system. An athlete needing this treatment requires a TUE.Donating plasma that includes plasmapheresis (when the rest of the blood components are reinjected into the donor) is prohibited for the donor because the donor’s own red blood cells and other blood components are being reintroduced into the circulatory system after the plasma has been separated.Plasmapharesis as a medical procedure for a recipient is permitted when the person is hospitalized, as part of a surgical procedure, or with approved clinical investigations, because the recipient only receives plasma (other blood cells are removed). For more information, see the WADA FAQ.Intravenous laser therapy, such as ozone and/or ultraviolet light therapies which includes the removal, treatment, and manipulation of blood or blood components are prohibited.
V12man Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 There was a case where a rider served a 2 year ban for this therapy. I'll try find it, think it was a American CX racer. Not very common. I also haven't seen the release from SAIDS outlining the offence other than its passport related. I have never seen a release from SAIDS that had enough detail in it to know exactly what the issue is - and biological passport related anomalies could land up very complex - especially when combined with known medical treatments that will affect it like transfusions and treatments for sepsis. One would have to build a detailed timeline of medical treatments, medical tests, drugs administered, surgeries, races, and when the drug testing was done (and the anomalies) to see if there is validity in KE's claims (and there may well be (or not)) jcza 1
davem Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 Two observations:If ozone was the difference between life and death, and the only viable treatment, why did he not appeal the TUE denial? Following on, competing during the same time as the request/denial of the TUE undermines the veracity of the life or death claim in the eyes of SAIDS and probably made him a target for extra testing and analysis.
Tumbleweed Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 One thing this whole debacle is missing is a spoof Hitler rant vid put together by the infamous "crimenal Rastafarian"... I miss him...sorta.
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