Tubeless Cyclocross wheels for Africa

[hweich]

My first post on this forum was about my new cyclo cross bike and i have to admit that i still cannot get enough of it. Everything is better than i hoped for except for the disc brakes and wheels.  I will discuss the wheels here.

My requirements for a CX bike’s wheels are the following:

·         I ride mostly road and the traffic forces me to do a bit of off-roading every now and then. Large knobs for riding in mud like the Europeans are therefore not necessary

·         The UCI regulations limit tyre width to 33mm for CX. Pointless for the majority of owners of these bikes as it may work on grassy and muddy courses in Holland but you cannot ride over rocks at speed and I think a minimum of 35mm is required.

·         It must be tubeless. Non-negotiable. You cannot ride through the thorns we have everywhere in the Cape with inner tubes and you will also constantly be fixing pinch flats.

 

RIMS

I chose Stan’s Grail X which hooks up perfectly with tubeless tyres but they are simply too soft. I put 8 dents in them in the first 8 weeks. Alternatives would be a ‘ghetto tubeless conversion’ [you just build up the rim bed with a few layers of rim tape] but I have no experience with this. Another option would be to simply use 29er MTB rims [they are also ‘700c’ or 622 sized] but are quite a bit wider and I’m not sure how the tyres will sit on them.

TYRES

The bike came with Vittoria Xg pro 700x31c tyres and they are made for mud [very knobbly] and WAY too narrow [hence the 8 dents in my rear rim by the time my replacement tyres arrived]

Next up I had a Challenge Gravel Grinder 700x38c on the back. Very nice tyre but although it is 38mm wide, it is not very high and you end up with too little volume to run it softer on poor terrain. Furthermore it’s not tubeless specific and climbs off the rim at higher pressures [more of this below]. The file thread did not last very long.

I thought the answers to my prayers would be Continental Cyclocross Speed 700x35c. Perfect thread that should last much longer than the others and for the road, conti makes the only tyres I ever trusted to trained with. Also very light at 350gm. The first time I mounted them was fine but I took them off to try something else and a month later when I remounted them, my troubles started:

·         When I inflated them to anything over 45 PSI they would come of the rim. This happens suddenly. With no warning. And very loudly. I don’t like it.

·         They oozed Stan’s fluid through the sidewalls ???! this continued for 2 weeks and I have now put an inner tube in them. see picture

So although they are brilliant tyres, I now have two of them that I will try to run with tubes through the winter when we have less thorns but will not buy them again

The tyre I was least excited about was WTB cross Boss 700x35c. [heavy, large knobs so noisy and does not roll well on the road] . Man, was I wrong about them. Hooking them up tubeless is a non-issue. No punctures. Although they are 35 wide, they are about 38mm high and this volume makes it easy to run them at pressures down to 27PSI off road. If the thread design was closer to the Contis’, I would stop my search for sure

 

TUBELESS

Setting a T/L specific tyre and rim combo up is extremely easy. The problem is the paucity of options when it comes to my T/L tyre requirements and invariably you will use non-T/L tyre. They usually work well except that you have a very limited range of pressures you can run them at. Tyre pressure is much more of an issue on a CX bike than any other type. So if you ride off road, you want them around 30 PSI and on the road as high as you can. The indicated pressures on the side walls are completely irrelevant. The most revealing bit of info has been the very fine print on the Stan’s rim: depending on the tyre width, the max pressure for a 23mm tyre is 116, for a 28mm it is 100 and for 32mm it is only 45 PSI !

If you inflate a [especially a non T/L ] tyre to 46 PSI, it will come off. Suddenly. Loudly.

You put a tube in it and you can go much higher – this is something I find mildly puzzling but it’s a fact. So as with most things, engineering is the art of balancing compromises and no set up will by flawless. I will settle for the WTB Cross Boss and may even try their 40mm Nano [weighs a tonne though] on the rear. When it’s time to replace my rims, I would hopefully have more options as tubeless disk rims should expand a lot in the next few years.

[Paul Ruinaard]

Interesting. I was building some disc tandem wheels and I asked ZTR/Stans which rim was strongest (also for my CX bike which is disc) and they mentioned the Grail was by far the strongest even compared to the Alpha rims which i have got.

 

So its interesting that you are bending them. Looks like you are riding some pretty rocky/gnarly stuff.

 

FWIW I also have a set of Carbon 29er MTB wheels (disc) which I use on the CX bike.

 

But what is also interesting is that I also managed to explode the Conti CX Tyres off the rim, which i chose for their less aggressive tread pattern and ability to handle road riding. But at 4 bars you are on the limit as you say and I bombed one of them whilst running tubeless only to explode the whole thing and end up walking home.

 

Have  a look at the Specialized CX tyres which I got from a concept store - they are aggressive and soft so i dont know about endurance and I wouldn't run them on road, but they seated straight away and are very grippy.

 

But I still ended up getting more of the Conti's as they enable me to road ride out to the cradle without having spare wheelsets etc.

 

I like the CX bike idea but I would be keen to do more gravel grinding as part of the road rides - which the Contis are suited to.

[NISI]

Interesting. I was building some disc tandem wheels and I asked ZTR/Stans which rim was strongest (also for my CX bike which is disc) and they mentioned the Grail was by far the strongest even compared to the Alpha rims which i have got.

 

So its interesting that you are bending them. Looks like you are riding some pretty rocky/gnarly stuff.

 

FWIW I also have a set of Carbon 29er MTB wheels (disc) which I use on the CX bike.

 

But what is also interesting is that I also managed to explode the Conti CX Tyres off the rim, which i chose for their less aggressive tread pattern and ability to handle road riding. But at 4 bars you are on the limit as you say and I bombed one of them whilst running tubeless only to explode the whole thing and end up walking home.

 

Have  a look at the Specialized CX tyres which I got from a concept store - they are aggressive and soft so i dont know about endurance and I wouldn't run them on road, but they seated straight away and are very grippy.

 

But I still ended up getting more of the Conti's as they enable me to road ride out to the cradle without having spare wheelsets etc.

 

I like the CX bike idea but I would be keen to do more gravel grinding as part of the road rides - which the Contis are suited to.

SpecializedTrigger Pro,runs nice on tar and ok for a bit of off road.No punctures yet after 3000km

[Ryanpmb]

Wider MTB rims will work nicely in 'pulling' the tyres to a nice fat profile.

 

40C On-One Gravel Road tyres work a treat for me. Do a search here for the CX thread - they're covered there.

[Underachiever]

Wider MTB rims will work nicely in 'pulling' the tyres to a nice fat profile.

 

40C On-One Gravel Road tyres work a treat for me. Do a search here for the CX thread - they're covered there.

Hi Ryan

 

The question that I have on using MTB rims is their max pressure rating.  All is good when you are offroad, but I found 5 bar works well on the tar.  But I'm not sure if all rims can withstand that type of pressure.

 

I still need to find pressure ratings for MTB rims.

[Ryanpmb]

Hi Ryan

 

The question that I have on using MTB rims is their max pressure rating. All is good when you are offroad, but I found 5 bar works well on the tar. But I'm not sure if all rims can withstand that type of pressure.

 

I still need to find pressure ratings for MTB rims.

Think I gave my opinion on this in the cx thread.

[gummibear]

The Grail is a very soft rim and seen a few dent over the last month.

 

Is that a foldable conti tyre?

 

I painted the inside of my CX X-King with sealant and filled up with extra sealant and it stopped weeping after a week.Running mine at 3 bar for now.

[Underachiever]

Think I gave my opinion on this in the cx thread.

Ta.  need to go check :-)

[Monark]

massive thumbs up for the On One CX tyres.... they are great off road and roll nicely on road. A true do it all tyre.

[Underachiever]

My first post on this forum was about my new cyclo cross bike and i have to admit that i still cannot get enough of it. Everything is better than i hoped for except for the disc brakes and wheels.  I will discuss the wheels here.

My requirements for a CX bike’s wheels are the following:

·         I ride mostly road and the traffic forces me to do a bit of off-roading every now and then. Large knobs for riding in mud like the Europeans are therefore not necessary

·         The UCI regulations limit tyre width to 33mm for CX. Pointless for the majority of owners of these bikes as it may work on grassy and muddy courses in Holland but you cannot ride over rocks at speed and I think a minimum of 35mm is required.

·         It must be tubeless. Non-negotiable. You cannot ride through the thorns we have everywhere in the Cape with inner tubes and you will also constantly be fixing pinch flats.

 

RIMS

I chose Stan’s Grail X which hooks up perfectly with tubeless tyres but they are simply too soft. I put 8 dents in them in the first 8 weeks. Alternatives would be a ‘ghetto tubeless conversion’ [you just build up the rim bed with a few layers of rim tape] but I have no experience with this. Another option would be to simply use 29er MTB rims [they are also ‘700c’ or 622 sized] but are quite a bit wider and I’m not sure how the tyres will sit on them.

rim.jpg

TYRES

The bike came with Vittoria Xg pro 700x31c tyres and they are made for mud [very knobbly] and WAY too narrow [hence the 8 dents in my rear rim by the time my replacement tyres arrived]

Next up I had a Challenge Gravel Grinder 700x38c on the back. Very nice tyre but although it is 38mm wide, it is not very high and you end up with too little volume to run it softer on poor terrain. Furthermore it’s not tubeless specific and climbs off the rim at higher pressures [more of this below]. The file thread did not last very long.

I thought the answers to my prayers would be Continental Cyclocross Speed 700x35c. Perfect thread that should last much longer than the others and for the road, conti makes the only tyres I ever trusted to trained with. Also very light at 350gm. The first time I mounted them was fine but I took them off to try something else and a month later when I remounted them, my troubles started:

·         When I inflated them to anything over 45 PSI they would come of the rim. This happens suddenly. With no warning. And very loudly. I don’t like it.

·         They oozed Stan’s fluid through the sidewalls ???! this continued for 2 weeks and I have now put an inner tube in them. see picture

IMG_3643.JPG

So although they are brilliant tyres, I now have two of them that I will try to run with tubes through the winter when we have less thorns but will not buy them again

The tyre I was least excited about was WTB cross Boss 700x35c. [heavy, large knobs so noisy and does not roll well on the road] . Man, was I wrong about them. Hooking them up tubeless is a non-issue. No punctures. Although they are 35 wide, they are about 38mm high and this volume makes it easy to run them at pressures down to 27PSI off road. If the thread design was closer to the Contis’, I would stop my search for sure

 

TUBELESS

Setting a T/L specific tyre and rim combo up is extremely easy. The problem is the paucity of options when it comes to my T/L tyre requirements and invariably you will use non-T/L tyre. They usually work well except that you have a very limited range of pressures you can run them at. Tyre pressure is much more of an issue on a CX bike than any other type. So if you ride off road, you want them around 30 PSI and on the road as high as you can. The indicated pressures on the side walls are completely irrelevant. The most revealing bit of info has been the very fine print on the Stan’s rim: depending on the tyre width, the max pressure for a 23mm tyre is 116, for a 28mm it is 100 and for 32mm it is only 45 PSI !

If you inflate a [especially a non T/L ] tyre to 46 PSI, it will come off. Suddenly. Loudly.

You put a tube in it and you can go much higher – this is something I find mildly puzzling but it’s a fact. So as with most things, engineering is the art of balancing compromises and no set up will by flawless. I will settle for the WTB Cross Boss and may even try their 40mm Nano [weighs a tonne though] on the rear. When it’s time to replace my rims, I would hopefully have more options as tubeless disk rims should expand a lot in the next few years.

Great post, please add a pic of your bike in the Cx thread - we are curious!!!

[hweich]

The Grail is a very soft rim and seen a few dent over the last month.

 

Is that a foldable conti tyre?

 

I painted the inside of my CX X-King with sealant and filled up with extra sealant and it stopped weeping after a week.Running mine at 3 bar for now.

 

Great post, please add a pic of your bike in the Cx thread - we are curious!!!

dont know how to post a reference to my first post on the bike but it is entitled" the future of road bikes in SA"

[hweich]

The Grail is a very soft rim and seen a few dent over the last month.

 

Is that a foldable conti tyre?

 

I painted the inside of my CX X-King with sealant and filled up with extra sealant and it stopped weeping after a week.Running mine at 3 bar for now.

yes it is foldable. you shouldn't try to mount wire beads tubeless i think. 

was wondering about 'airproofing' the inside with something. i'm however still very worried about the other problem i had with the Conti's [popping off the rim] so i just don't trust them anymore

[SpruitCommuter]

I have been running the on-one gravel road 40mm tyres tubeless on mtb rims (vittoria creed wheelset with gorilla tape and stans sealant) on a hybrid commuting bike. I run them at a touch over 4 bar (maybe a bit less at the front). They were a bit leaky for a while - sidewalls seemed a bit permeable (oddly mostly on the rear tyre). So far no issues regarding burping/coming off the rim. Overall I'm very happy with them.

[milky4130]

I have been running the on-one gravel road 40mm tyres tubeless on mtb rims (vittoria creed wheelset with gorilla tape and stans sealant) on a hybrid commuting bike. I run them at a touch over 4 bar (maybe a bit less at the front). They were a bit leaky for a while - sidewalls seemed a bit permeable (oddly mostly on the rear tyre). So far no issues regarding burping/coming off the rim. Overall I'm very happy with them.

where can I get these 40mm tyres you speak of?

[King_Crispy]

where can I get these 40mm tyres you speak of?

Ryanpmb supplies them

[King_Crispy]

I'm hoping he can supply me some...

Ryan, you got stock?