Open letter by Vents regarding disc brakes **Graphic photos**

[Spinnekop]

Don't need them, won't buy them if I had the opportunity.

 

By the time I need that much braking power, the front wheel of my skinny bike has long left the ground and my ass will have already been united with mother earth.

On the MTB it works very well with mud.  But I don't do mud or wet on the road bike.  That is why I own 'n MTB.  To ride with that in the mud and rain with wider tyres with proper grip and thread to handle bigger brake forces.

 

But that is just me.

I am sure the bike industry will push this through and that the LBS will sell lots and lots of them in future to come. 

[Guest Lancesball]

That looks more like a cobble, rock etc than a disc brake inspired injury.

[Headshot]

Think we need Dexter to give us an opinion...

[Paul Ruinaard]

There have been so many good posts about this that all you need to do is Google and you will get most of the best written opinions - suffice to say its all been covered.

 

I reckon that our ever so squeaky clean and honest peloton has conspired to screw with manufacturers here. 

 

Methinks there is another agenda afoot totally.

 

Like "we dont want discs" and we will ensure that they get some horrid coverage.

 

So irrespective of what caused the lurid wounds, you just needed to invoke the hoodoo of "sharp discus running wild in the peloton slashing cyclists to shreds" and everyone would go crazy.

 

Which is what happened.

 

Tell me how many injuries like this do you get in MX and MotoGP. I mean drum brakes are a lot safer.

What a load of BS.

 

There is something else afoot here....

[lechatnoir]

And on the OUTSIDE of his left leg, to boot. 

Does not make any rational sense in my muddled little brain.

 

we need to get some of those yellow plastic bendy mannetjies from Big Blue and do a crime scene recreation. that's RE-creation, not recreation (as in fun)

[Capricorn]

 

Tell me how many injuries like this do you get in MX and MotoGP. I mean drum brakes are a lot safer.

What a load of BS.

 

 

 

well, they have brake covers in MX, and riders wear some good leathers/protective gear in motoGP. So not quite a good set of parallels to draw.

 

http://p.vitalmx.com/photos/stories/2014/11/19/max_frontdisc_58443.jpg?1416464123

 

http://www.off-road.com/images/content/8-MX-Trail-Bike-Armor-3-19-12.jpg

[Patchelicious]

Look, let's be frank here. If the riders wanted disks to stay, they would have called on getting simple little plastic covers fitted or some sort of solution.

 

The fact that they didn't speaks volumes.

[Paul Ruinaard]

well, they have brake covers in MX, and riders wear some good leathers/protective gear in motoGP. So not quite a good set of parallels to draw.

Umm,

 

those covers are there to keep the mud and water out rather than the riders safe.

 

But it's a good point - covers work (it was posted here earlier). However the wheel acts like a cover. Try to honestly get your leg in to your MTB wheel? It takes talent.

 

But it could happen.

 

Another point is to machine the edge of the discs round to they are not sharp.

 

And if discs were so sharp and dangerous the leathers in Motogp which are just cow skin wouldn't really help you.  But just tell me when last you saw a lurid disc injury in an MTB race which also has large bunches?

 

And again - an exposed chainring with teeth doesn't need covers.

 

So no those arguments dont hack it.

[Capricorn]

Umm,

 

those covers are there to keep the mud and water out rather than the riders safe.

 

But it's a good point - covers work (it was posted here earlier). However the wheel acts like a cover. Try to honestly get your leg in to your MTB wheel? It takes talent.

 

But it could happen.

 

Another point is to machine the edge of the discs round to they are not sharp.

 

And if discs were so sharp and dangerous the leathers in Motogp which are just cow skin wouldn't really help you. 

 

I only highlighted disc covers and cowhides to show that they make brake disc injuries less likely than someone that has zero protection. It in no way impacts upon the likelihood of someone falling in the direction of a brake rotor.

 

we agree one thing they should do, which is to radius the edges of the rotors. Skinned my thumb pretty good the other day while cleaning the bike. Them edges are mighty sharp, and them brake pads are doing a damn fine job of keeping them razor like.

 

while i know how sharp they can be, i'm less afraid of falling and being hacked by my own rotors, than coming into contact them just after i used them. hotdamn those things are fuggin HOT! Makes me wonder if that roadie's wounds had any signs of singeing...

['Dale]

Don't need them, won't buy them if I had the opportunity.

 

By the time I need that much braking power, the front wheel of my skinny bike has long left the ground and my ass will have already been united with mother earth.

On the MTB it works very well with mud.  But I don't do mud or wet on the road bike.  That is why I own 'n MTB.  To ride with that in the mud and rain with wider tyres with proper grip and thread to handle bigger brake forces.

 

But that is just me.

I am sure the bike industry will push this through and that the LBS will sell lots and lots of them in future to come. 

 

Yes, critical for variable terrain (meaning mud, sand, gravel, rivers, etc)

[SwissVan]

One thing that gets to me.

 

"I didnt actually fall down. It was only my leg touching the back of his bike."

 

Now could someone please explain to me. Pictures or illustrations welcome. How on this planet do you get your left leg to touch the left hand side of another bikes rear wheel so close to the wheel axle. And dont fall. Unless he was totally uncleated legs flying all over the show.

 

Its actually quite feasible, the rear wheel of the bike in front of Ventoso is rammed between Ventoso's bike and his left leg. As to why he did not fall, its quite possible that his weight was supported by other riders / bikes.

[SwissVan]

There have been so many good posts about this that all you need to do is Google and you will get most of the best written opinions - suffice to say its all been covered.

 

I reckon that our ever so squeaky clean and honest peloton has conspired to screw with manufacturers here. 

 

Methinks there is another agenda afoot totally.

 

Like "we dont want discs" and we will ensure that they get some horrid coverage.

 

So irrespective of what caused the lurid wounds, you just needed to invoke the hoodoo of "sharp discus running wild in the peloton slashing cyclists to shreds" and everyone would go crazy.

 

Which is what happened.

 

Tell me how many injuries like this do you get in MX and MotoGP. I mean drum brakes are a lot safer.

What a load of BS.

 

There is something else afoot here....

 

Go ride MX or MGP in your lycra cycling kit first, wear a pair of takkies, leave your boots and leathers behind then we can start comparing road cycling to MX etc

 

MX has 40 riders on the line max, Moto GP even less...the races only last a fraction of the time and happen once a week.....and never do they ride continuously next to each other like in road cycling. The odds are a lot less

 

Anyway that's all another argument, other than the carbon rim issue there is no real need for discs in road racing, the existing brakes work just fine.... not even all the CX racers are using them and they make perfect sense for CX.

 

Don't take my word for it, but maybe this fellows:

 

 

http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/04/news/eddy-merckx-disc-brakes-dangerous-racing_402468

 

Less than two weeks ago, Eddy Merckx spoke rather prophetically about disc brakes in pro road racing.

“They work for [consumers], but in racing I think they’re too dangerous in crashes,” Merckx said. “If you crash, the brake can be hot, and if you take it in a leg, you can slice a tendon. In mountain bikes and cyclocross, it’s OK. But in a peloton, with 200 riders, I think it’s dangerous.”

Spanish rider Fran Ventoso (Movistar), as we now know, blames a disc rotor for a frightening, bone-exposing gash he suffered at Paris-Roubaix on Sunday.

Merckx was speaking two days ahead of the Tour of Flanders, at a small gathering at Palm, a brewery outside of Brussels whose owner, Jan Toye, now owns Eddy Merckx Cycles and is trying to revitalize the brand, which has struggled since Merckx sold it to different owners in 2008.

While Merckx hasn’t been a majority owner since that time, he says he is involved in product development with the new staff, especially with regards to geometry and to his drive for product safety.

“When there are new models, I ride them and give my impressions,” Merckx said, adding that he thinks the drive to lighter and lighter frames has sacrificed consumer safety. “I think the weight of the frame is very important for safety. The UCI’s 6.8-kilo limit is on the bike. But for me, what’s important for consumers isn’t the weight of the bike but the weight of the frame. The most important thing on a bike is safety.”

The conversation inevitably turned to discs. And Merckx, though he was seated next to a production Eddy Merckx 525 road bike with disc brakes, didn’t equivocate.

“I rode a bike today with disc brakes,” he said. “Yeah, they work. But for me, the best is carbon wheels with aluminum rims and rim brakes. OK, a disc is better in the rain. But if the UCI rules said ‘carbon wheels with aluminum rims,’ it would solve everything.”

Merckx is no Luddite. He praised the stiffness and tuneability of composite frames. And when asked which modern cycling technology he most wishes had been around when he was racing, the 70-year-old legend leaned forward in his seat and became more animated than at any other point in the evening.

“Click [clipless] pedals and the shifters in the brake levers,” he said. “I’m sure that if I could have ridden the hour record with click pedals I could have done over 50 kilometers.”

It’s a safe bet to say he would have gone well beyond that, given that he rode 49.431 kilometers on a steel bike with toe straps

Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/04/news/eddy-merckx-disc-brakes-dangerous-racing_402468#DRQHyF2SFesegm9L.99

 

[Paul Ruinaard]

Swissvan,

 

Not sure I agree but we have sparred over this topic many time in the past and I suppose agree to disagree on the outcome. Here are two other posts that i found which give a very balanced opinion on the matter:

 

http://road.cc/content/tech-news/186146-have-disc-brakes-really-led-injuries-peloton

 

 

http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/04/news/commentary-disc-brakes-cyclings-leadership-vacuum_402551

 

I think the second one explains what si wrong with cycling in total.

 

I think that a lot of this is that the injury was very unlikely to have happened in the way that he described.

 

Look - if there was out and out video evidence that showed what he said happened - then no questions asked.

 

But there isn't.

 

And even though there are injuries that are pretty nasty, the likelihood of this happening as he says is low.

 

So why accuse the discs of being at fault? 

 

More like "we dont like the discs so lets get them banned" and the perfect opportunity arises.

 

This guy is going to have a recall - if i was an investigator i'd be watching his bank accounts....

 

There is something rotten in the state of Denmark here.

[raptor-22]

Umm,

 

those covers are there to keep the mud and water out rather than the riders safe.

 

But it's a good point - covers work (it was posted here earlier). However the wheel acts like a cover. Try to honestly get your leg in to your MTB wheel? It takes talent.

 

But it could happen.

 

Another point is to machine the edge of the discs round to they are not sharp.

 

And if discs were so sharp and dangerous the leathers in Motogp which are just cow skin wouldn't really help you.  But just tell me when last you saw a lurid disc injury in an MTB race which also has large bunches?

 

And again - an exposed chainring with teeth doesn't need covers.

 

So no those arguments dont hack it.

 

 

 

How many people get caught  by the chain rings?

Only the rider.

IF chainrings were a big problem the industry would switch to belt drive and gearboxes.

 

Again, stop drawing parallels with things that have a proven record of low risk.

Here Disc brakes are in the peloton for less than 6 months and already riders are getting cu up.

Another thing about chainrings, they're dangerous at speed and at speed most of them have a chain wrapped over them.

[SwissVan]

Swissvan,

 

Not sure I agree but we have sparred over this topic many time in the past and I suppose agree to disagree on the outcome. Here are two other posts that i found which give a very balanced opinion on the matter:

 

http://road.cc/content/tech-news/186146-have-disc-brakes-really-led-injuries-peloton

 

 

http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/04/news/commentary-disc-brakes-cyclings-leadership-vacuum_402551

 

I think the second one explains what si wrong with cycling in total.

 

I think that a lot of this is that the injury was very unlikely to have happened in the way that he described.

 

Look - if there was out and out video evidence that showed what he said happened - then no questions asked.

 

But there isn't.

 

And even though there are injuries that are pretty nasty, the likelihood of this happening as he says is low.

 

So why accuse the discs of being at fault? 

 

More like "we dont like the discs so lets get them banned" and the perfect opportunity arises.

 

This guy is going to have a recall - if i was an investigator i'd be watching his bank accounts....

 

There is something rotten in the state of Denmark here.

 

Ja no worries, its all about open and fair debate.

 

Look either way I don't care what the UCI or riders do, as long as they don't make discs compulsory on road bikes I'm happy.

 

Personally I don't believe Ventoso would go this far and pretend it was a disc that slashed his leg just because he does not want to see discs in the peloton..... but stranger things have happened. 

 

As of yet there is no video evidence supporting anyone's theory, just some riders who were involved... I wonder if Ventoso's "mate" Nicholas Maes has denied Ventoso's claim?

 

Point is these are the active players in the game (i.e. riders) who are opposing them as they have concerns for their safety, and that's all...what else could they gain from it?

 

The manufactures are not doing it for safety, otherwise they would have done it years ago...its all about coming up with a some new marketing bling to make $$$

[Patchelicious]

Do you think that Eddys comments are driven by his concern for athletes or his bike companies RnD budget?