BDF Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/gout-diet/art-20048524 Essentially NOT related to an "acidic diet" or treatable with an "alkaline diet" but is largely related to a chemical called Purine, which the body breaks down into Uric acid. And the text... Definition Gout, a painful form of arthritis, occurs when high levels of uric acid in the blood cause crystals to form and accumulate around a joint.Uric acid is produced when the body breaks down a chemical called purine. Purine occurs naturally in your body, but it's also found in certain foods. Uric acid is eliminated from the body in urine. Gout has to do with the Uric Acid formed when the body breaks down Purines in food. So high levels of purines in food = increased gout risk. Maybe acidic food also has high purine levels? OK, now please know that I am not trying to be argumentative, only seeking understanding where science/medicine/health guru/logic don't correlate. If eating acidic stuff does not alter blood Ph, then where does this uric acid in the blood come from unless it was consumed? Logically then, the food itself may not have made the blood more acidic, but the knock-on effect seems to be that the blood became more acidic and caused gout. I'm just an oke who wants to live a long, full and healthy life. Hence my curiosity in this area.
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 OK, now please know that I am not trying to be argumentative, only seeking understanding where science/medicine/health guru/logic don't correlate. If eating acidic stuff does not alter blood Ph, then where does this uric acid in the blood come from unless it was consumed? Logically then, the food itself may not have made the blood more acidic, but the knock-on effect seems to be that the blood became more acidic and caused gout. I'm just an oke who wants to live a long, full and healthy life. Hence my curiosity in this area.Through the breakdown of the chemical Purine, and excessive consumption of foodstuffs which contain it without a complementary chemical. Essentially, the "safe" Purine-containing foods have another chemical in them which, when broken down in the stomach in conjunction with the purine, form a non-harmful chemical compound. nothing to do with acidity. It's a chemical reaction between stomach acid and purine.
MTBeer Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 OK, now please know that I am not trying to be argumentative, only seeking understanding where science/medicine/health guru/logic don't correlate. If eating acidic stuff does not alter blood Ph, then where does this uric acid in the blood come from unless it was consumed? Logically then, the food itself may not have made the blood more acidic, but the knock-on effect seems to be that the blood became more acidic and caused gout. I'm just an oke who wants to live a long, full and healthy life. Hence my curiosity in this area.I'm no doctor but the way I understand it is that the body produces uric acid to process the purines in the food. Some people's kidney's can't process (flush) the uric acid from the system causing a build-up of crystals in the joints. yes, I get gout. yes it is kaaaaaaaaak sore!!!
V12man Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 I must bow to your superior knowledge. Just to clarify, are you suggesting that eating and drinking acidic food and drink does not influence the acidity of the blood just because stomach acid is more acidic that water or foods we eat?No - I am not suggesting that there is no influence of what we eat - especially if it's extreme. Blood ph is particularly tricky because of the buffer nature of blood - it's resistant to Ph changes up to a point. But a ph of 4 is not fundamentally extreme - check the ph of many other drinks - take coke for instance - 2.5 odd - and that is SIGNIFICANTLY more acidic than 4 - or fruit juices - some as low as 2. In general, foodstuffs tend to be more acidic than alkali - I had to google this list - hope it's of interest - not much neutral or alkali.... https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiU6LaK5LbNAhUMCcAKHXsICPUQFggmMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffoodsafety.wisc.edu%2Fbusiness_food%2Ffiles%2Fapproximate_ph.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFMDU93z2iFu39QgMchkjI-eBENLg
BDF Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 Ha ha MTBer! Thanks Myles and V12 for your input too. Sorry OP for the thread hijack I would rather live healthy and not need tons of medication when I am old in an effort to manage the ills and dis-eases resulting from what I ate and drank over a lifetime. My Dad died at just 69. He was on so much medication that even the pharmacist was nervous! me once documented a full page of conditions that he suffered from - each needing it's own medication. He was almost proud of his multitude of conditions. His kidneys, liver and heart just ended up giving in apparently from needing to process such amounts of medication over his life. I don't want the same. Ok as you were. The quest will no doubt be life-long.
V12man Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 OK, now please know that I am not trying to be argumentative, only seeking understanding where science/medicine/health guru/logic don't correlate. If eating acidic stuff does not alter blood Ph, then where does this uric acid in the blood come from unless it was consumed? Logically then, the food itself may not have made the blood more acidic, but the knock-on effect seems to be that the blood became more acidic and caused gout. I'm just an oke who wants to live a long, full and healthy life. Hence my curiosity in this area.There is a difference between "acid" as a generic class of chemicals, and "uric acid" as a specific. The tendency of uric acid to form crystals which are the primary cause of gout - but uric acid's phi is about 5.5.... so technically an acid - but you won't notice it as acidic compared to lemon juice. Fundamentally uric acid crystals form when you have too much uric acid in the body - either due to a metabolic deficiency or eating too much of some foodstuffs which contain the metabolic precursors to uric acid, or alternately influence the bodies elimination of uric acid negatively.
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 No - I am not suggesting that there is no influence of what we eat - especially if it's extreme. Blood ph is particularly tricky because of the buffer nature of blood - it's resistant to Ph changes up to a point. But a ph of 4 is not fundamentally extreme - check the ph of many other drinks - take coke for instance - 2.5 odd - and that is SIGNIFICANTLY more acidic than 4 - or fruit juices - some as low as 2. In general, foodstuffs tend to be more acidic than alkali - I had to google this list - hope it's of interest - not much neutral or alkali.... https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiU6LaK5LbNAhUMCcAKHXsICPUQFggmMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffoodsafety.wisc.edu%2Fbusiness_food%2Ffiles%2Fapproximate_ph.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFMDU93z2iFu39QgMchkjI-eBENLgAs with most of these pseudoscience things, I believe it's just a gross oversimplification and misunderstanding of things. Something along the lines of "these foods when broken down create changes in these things through the release of acids, therefore acidic food is bad" when it's got sweet FA to do with a food items acidity
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 Ha ha MTBer! Thanks Myles and V12 for your input too. Sorry OP for the thread hijack I would rather live healthy and not need tons of medication when I am old in an effort to manage the ills and dis-eases resulting from what I ate and drank over a lifetime. My Dad died at just 69. He was on so much medication that even the pharmacist was nervous! me once documented a full page of conditions that he suffered from - each needing it's own medication. He was almost proud of his multitude of conditions. His kidneys, liver and heart just ended up giving in apparently from needing to process such amounts of medication over his life. I don't want the same. Ok as you were. The quest will no doubt be life-long.Hell yes. My dad is the same. 78 years and bloody invincible considering his medical history. Heart, lung, kidney, stomach, cancer.. bloody hell
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 I certainly don't want to go through that gauntlet
BDF Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 As with most of these pseudoscience things, I believe it's just a gross oversimplification and misunderstanding of things. Something along the lines of "these foods when broken down create changes in these things through the release of acids, therefore acidic food is bad" when it's got sweet FA to do with a food items aciditySo there are labels for all the health related industry people depending on who you are: Medical professionals: labelled as people who spend little time studying nutrition and are the main source of prescribing the wares of the pharmaceutical companies. "We are the real scientists" So called Alternative health practitioners: Labelled as quack doctors by the Medical professionals, also labelled as in it for profiteering off quack products they try and vend. "We are the real scientists" Then there are okies like me who try and sift through endless reams of fact, fiction, vain postulation, and the like. I am for sure no pseudo scientist, scientist, doctor or nutritionist but as I said, I want a long , full and healthy life so I try to balance it all up and do what makes the most sense at the time. This is, what makes sense today has sometimes proven to be a load of crap later. But I guess we must adapt to the best knowledge we have at the time. If we make mistakes along the way, we can only hope they are not permanently detrimental. We must concede and change though because if we doggedly stick to our views that are wrong views, we do so to our own hurt. My Dad was unfortunately like that. With respect to the medical professionals that he consulted, they just diagnosed and prescribed. They did not cure any of his ailments, they just managed the symptoms with drugs. I'm sorry but I don't think that is right. Crap, I though shut up for the rest of the day. I may well be inviting a beating soon! :offtopic: Again - SORRRRYYYY
Thor Buttox Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 So there are labels for all the health related industry people depending on who you are: Medical professionals: labelled as people who spend little time studying nutrition and are the main source of prescribing the wares of the pharmaceutical companies. "We are the real scientists" So called Alternative health practitioners: Labelled as quack doctors by the Medical professionals, also labelled as in it for profiteering off quack products they try and vend. "We are the real scientists" Then there are okies like me who try and sift through endless reams of fact, fiction, vain postulation, and the like. I am for sure no pseudo scientist, scientist, doctor or nutritionist but as I said, I want a long , full and healthy life so I try to balance it all up and do what makes the most sense at the time. This is, what makes sense today has sometimes proven to be a load of crap later. But I guess we must adapt to the best knowledge we have at the time. If we make mistakes along the way, we can only hope they are not permanently detrimental. We must concede and change though because if we doggedly stick to our views that are wrong views, we do so to our own hurt. My Dad was unfortunately like that. With respect to the medical professionals that he consulted, they just diagnosed and prescribed. They did not cure any of his ailments, they just managed the symptoms with drugs. I'm sorry but I don't think that is right. Crap, I though shut up for the rest of the day. I may well be inviting a beating soon! :offtopic: Again - SORRRRYYYYThere are many, many shades of grey in medicine. Ask your doctor when they prescribe an antibiotic for flu...why? What are you treating? Maybe they'll say something like preventing bacterial pneumonia, but most times we are on the rebound already and just need to rest and recover. But there many things where there is just no evidence or severely lacking oversight (eg the anti-vaccination brigade). Discerning people will be able to tell the difference if they can abandon any agenda and view it through the same lens as you - trying to live a long life.
RocknRolla Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 If this trend of Science Hub is going to continue.. the above will be as much as I can contribute.
Thor Buttox Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 If this trend of Science Hub is going to continue.. the above will be as much as I can contribute.You can be Bill Deny, the anti-science guy?
RocknRolla Posted June 20, 2016 Posted June 20, 2016 You can be Bill Deny, the anti-science guy? I'll take it.
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