conversations with a table mountain mugger - groundup article

[OneLove]

Anybody here grow up in a ghetto around lots of Nortons?

[Slowbee]

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[LazyTrailRider]

 

The greater good here seems to me to illustrate to the public the dynamics that fuel the violence of our country.

 

 

As Spock would eloquently say: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

 

Is one life sacrificed worth a few thousand people gaining a better understanding of the dynamics and someone who previously didn't understand taking action which triggers positive change? Not an easy question to answer. The knee-jerk reaction is "No, FFS, no!", but there's a bigger picture here.

[The expat cyclist]

Anybody here grow up in a ghetto around lots of Nortons?

We used to live in the same burb as Oscar. But he has since relocated.

Then there was the auntie that wanted her daughters boyfriend killed by some Nigerians because he stopped ...well, he stopped.

And this is the other side of the traintracks I have been told.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

MOD NOTE:

 

Lets keep this sensitive topic respectful.

 

No need to be all personal if you dont like the opinion. Discuss the opinion and not the poster.

 

Keep religion out of this discussion.

 

Regard this as a formal warning to everyone.

Dammit. Seems I missed something. Was it good? Thor? Welcome to pm me

[Thor Buttox]

Dammit. Seems I missed something. Was it good? Thor? Welcome to pm me

Not a clue this side either? I'm battling with my Norton Antivirus.

[Mamil]

Now that's an interesting idea - maybe using bikes and riding as the mechanism to engage somehow. Maybe like a trail riding club? I don't have experience in this kind of project but I'd be willing to participate / contribute.

 

Anyone got ideas / resources? 

 

 

Some interesting points of view here. Certainly a topic which demands attention and it occurred to me that one of the points folk seem to agree on is that education is required.

Considering that cyclists and hikers appear to be the groups most affected by this, I thought that this may be an opportunity to contribute in some meaningful way.

I don’t know how to do it but would be prepared to put money into some sort of Hub-sponsored education program for Hangberg kids. Aim would be to provide them with a moral framework, education and perspective that they would not be getting from their parents or environment. Whio knows, it could perhaps even grow into something else from there.

Perhaps it would have to involve Social Services and/or schools or other NGOs from Hout Bay.

Does anybody have any concrete suggestions on how to go about it? Anybody here with experience in this kind of thing?

[Pah Bear]

MOD NOTE:

 

Lets keep this sensitive topic respectful.

 

No need to be all personal if you dont like the opinion. Discuss the opinion and not the poster.

 

Keep religion out of this discussion.

 

Regard this as a formal warning to everyone.

Took your time ... but then you go by a name 

[LazyTrailRider]

Edit: Updated my original post instead of posting a link separately.

[Mntboy]

 

 

haha. Gonna have to try harder to bait me, Mr Silverback.

 

All I said is that you're not reading the posts properly. Nobody is excusing / justifying / explaining away his actions. All we're doing is attempting to understand how he got there, and determining how to alleviate it in the future so that the possibility of future Nortons is reduced.

 

He needs to rot in jail. Nobody has said otherwise. His actions have consequences, and he DECIDED to follow a certain path which eventually took him there.

 

That we are attempting to understand how / why those decisions were made, and how best to avoid the situation in the future in no way detracts from the abhorrence of his actions.

 

Oh. And we don't instantly jump to GODDIDIT or SATANDIDIT as explanations. That is intellectually bankrupt.

Does supporting a charity that assists kids in vulnerable circumstances count as aiding in alleviating the creation of further Norton's? I am not entirely sure and yet I give R150 to a charity that does that. How come? In the hopes that it will provide at least one child with the educational and moral grounding to choose a better life for themselves than the one that were born into.

 

Oh - and my mind is not great. I just question things, and attempt to understand. Sometimes I fail. But if I fail, I ask myself why, and correct those things which I am able to.

Don't you wish that more people would actually do this sort of self reflection/introspection. The world might actually become a better place if they did. Or at least that is my opinion.

 

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[Mntboy]

I'd like to share this blog by Jon Foreman. It might be in the context of America and it's domestic terrorism issues but I think the points he raises is as much valid for S.A. as it is for Americans. http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/13381774

 

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[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

 

Does supporting a charity that assists kids in vulnerable circumstances count as aiding in alleviating the creation of further Norton's? I am not entirely sure and yet I give R150 to a charity that does that. How come? In the hopes that it will provide at least one child with the educational and moral grounding to choose a better life for themselves than the one that were born into.

 

 

Don't you wish that more people would actually do this sort of self reflection/introspection. The world might actually become a better place if they did. Or at least that is my opinion.

 

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IMO yes it does, and absolutely. It's not a very common trait, though

[Thor Buttox]

 

Does supporting a charity that assists kids in vulnerable circumstances count as aiding in alleviating the creation of further Norton's? I am not entirely sure and yet I give R150 to a charity that does that. How come? In the hopes that it will provide at least one child with the educational and moral grounding to choose a better life for themselves than the one that were born into.

 

 

Don't you wish that more people would actually do this sort of self reflection/introspection. The world might actually become a better place if they did. Or at least that is my opinion.

 

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Your question about the R150 is very interesting. This post entirely an opinion based on experience, and I am sure social workers would have a far better on the ground experience, but I don't think a bunch of cyclists riding in on their kit would have a positive outcome. During a Habitat for Humanity build a few years ago, I had the privilege of walking around the community and being invited into peoples houses and the good, honest, proud people was a revelation. People are people and don't want to pitied - they want empowerment and an opportunity. (Not the Norton's but the vast, unreported majority)

 

I would think that investment of money or time into a good NGO would be a better way of uplifting the community, than unconnected projects to 'educate' which just alienate.

 

But I may be very wrong and would be interested what others think.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Your question about the R150 is very interesting. This post entirely an opinion based on experience, and I am sure social workers would have a far better on the ground experience, but I don't think a bunch of cyclists riding in on their kit would have a positive outcome. During a Habitat for Humanity build a few years ago, I had the privilege of walking around the community and being invited into peoples houses and the good, honest, proud people was a revelation. People are people and don't want to pitied - they want empowerment and an opportunity. (Not the Norton's but the vast, unreported majority)

 

I would think that investment of money or time into a good NGO would be a better way of uplifting the community, than unconnected projects to 'educate' which just alienate.

 

But I may be very wrong and would be interested what others think.

Agreed. Unless the drive to educate included more facilities at a school or funds for more teachers etc

[Patchelicious]

A very important thing to remember when talking drives/NGOs is that you need people with a very passionate view about the topic to drive it, else it will frizzle it very quickly.

 

It's a long term commitment.

[Mlayne]

As horrific as these crimes are and as ghastly as it is to have endured them, until we realise that there is a connection between the fact that we are riding bikes that it costs more year on year to own and maintain than the huge majority of famllies have to feed, clothe and educate their children and then use that awareness to equip ourselves with ideologies and mechanisms to do something about that massive discrepancy, these crimes will continue.

 

It astonishes me that we privileged mountain bikers arrive at these rural locations for rides, are ushered around the course on our bikes, each of which costs more than the farm labourer marshalls might earn in that year and are apparently oblivious to the absurdity of our entitlement.

 

Yes I work work and no doubt so do you but it isn't hard work that separates me in my 250 grand car and my 40 grand bike and 3 grand of cycling clothes and my 1 grand camelback and the new bontragers at 1400 a set on the wheels - it is an accident of birth.

 

Misplaced sympathy - I feel sympathy for us all - for Norton, the psychopath that our society made, for myself and all that I've lost and dealt with in terms of crime against me, for all of us.

 

It's a horror story what's happening to us and I wish we could stop it.

I agree 1000%. Well said. Drugs make it

Worse but there are many Norton doing it for food and clothes not just drugs... The drugs are a by product of circumstances in many instances. Starting as A form of escapism and seeking some euphoria which we get through other means like riding our bikes.