Flat Earthers

[Piston ZA]

I put flat-earthers and anti-vaxxers in the same boat. They all suffer from the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

[Eldron]

I put flat-earthers and anti-vaxxers in the same boat. They all suffer from the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

I've met a few flat earthers and to be honest I think it's all a bit of a laugh. They talk all serious but I suspect it's more of a gin drinking social club than actual science club.

[Piston ZA]

I've met a few flat earthers and to be honest I think it's all a bit of a laugh. They talk all serious but I suspect it's more of a gin drinking social club than actual science club.

I also suspect the majority of them are actually just taking the piss and next-level trolls. Seriously, how could anyone truly believe the earth is flat.

[stefmeister]

LOL. Science a religion. LOL. Science is the study of things we do not understand, and the attempt to understand those things which we see / find, and is subject to constant revision should there be sufficient conflicting information.

 

Religion is the attribution of everything to a higher power. Nothing is subject to revision. God always did it. 

 

Flat earthers, chem-trailers, moon landing sceptics, anti vaxxers, climate change denialists... the list goes on. All batty, and essentially argue from an ideological standpoint. Meaning, really, that no amount of evidence presented as a counter-argument will change their views.

http://i.imgur.com/pQo7e8E.jpg

[Thor Buttox]

 

LOL. Science a religion. LOL. Science is the study of things we do not understand, and the attempt to understand those things which we see / find, and is subject to constant revision should there be sufficient conflicting information.

 

Religion is the attribution of everything to a higher power. Nothing is subject to revision. God always did it.

 

Flat earthers, chem-trailers, moon landing sceptics, anti vaxxers, climate change denialists... the list goes on. All batty, and essentially argue from an ideological standpoint. Meaning, really, that no amount of evidence presented as a counter-argument will change their views.

http://i.imgur.com/pQo7e8E.jpg

Well, not without the MMR vaccine certainly.

[JanJan]

Then even straight up facts can suddenly seem arbitrary. 

 

Good post.

 

How would the Hub jury respond to the following:

 

I actually think that facts are always arbitrary if you want prove something. As the probability would always exist that not a large enough (endless) sample was tested, and not all methods (endless) were conducted. Good science in 6th Century BC is now considered bad science in 2017. The same may happen in the next 1000 years.

 

All scientific studies must then be seen in isolation, because any conclusion made based on results on a predetermined sample cannot be used a 'fact' to allow the following person make assumptions for his/her own study.

 

Ongoing science will only result in the assumptions and hypothesis becoming more predictable. A collection of hypothesis may not be considered facts and you may never hypothesize that something will result in a predicted way.

 

This conundrum means that the first result ever to be considered a fact, is when we know all the answers to absolute everything, even predicting them correctly. That will only happen when we are omnipresent, omniscient, etc.

 

But we state 'facts' frequently without the disclosing that our perception of a fact is actually only a result of a specified sample and assumptions and that we that we do not know everything.

 

That generally leads to ***:

• EARTH IS FLAT
• GOD EXISTS/GOD DOESN'T EXIST
• QUINTANA SUCKS

TLDR: You never really understand a person until you climb into his skin and walk around in it. ¬To Kill A Mockingbird

[Patchelicious]

I've met a few flat earthers and to be honest I think it's all a bit of a laugh. They talk all serious but I suspect it's more of a gin drinking social club than actual science club.

I have never had the pleasure of chatting to one.

 

A question that I have, what's their main motivation? Why do they believe this?

[HeyYou]

[Piston ZA]

I have never had the pleasure of chatting to one.

 

A question that I have, what's their main motivation? Why do they believe this?

To turn it around, I have never seen a flat-earther explain why NASA, the world's scientists and every government on earth, would lie that the earth is round. What is the motivation? Why would nations, even nations that are enemies, collude with each other to fool us? 

[Eldron]

I have never had the pleasure of chatting to one.

 

A question that I have, what's their main motivation? Why do they believe this?

I don't think they believe it at all - I reckon it's just a silly excuse to hang with other silly people. A bit like the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster....

[stefmeister]

Good post.

 

How would the Hub jury respond to the following:

 

I actually think that facts are always arbitrary if you want prove something. As the probability would always exist that not a large enough (endless) sample was tested, and not all methods (endless) were conducted. Good science in 6th Century BC is now considered bad science in 2017. The same may happen in the next 1000 years.

 

All scientific studies must then be seen in isolation, because any conclusion made based on results on a predetermined sample cannot be used a 'fact' to allow the following person make assumptions for his/her own study.

 

Ongoing science will only result in the assumptions and hypothesis becoming more predictable. A collection of hypothesis may not be considered facts and you may never hypothesize that something will result in a predicted way.

 

This conundrum means that the first result ever to be considered a fact, is when we know all the answers to absolute everything, even predicting them correctly. That will only happen when we are omnipresent, omniscient, etc.

 

But we state 'facts' frequently without the disclosing that our perception of a fact is actually only a result of a specified sample and assumptions and that we that we do not know everything.

 

That generally leads to ***:

• EARTH IS FLAT
• GOD EXISTS/GOD DOESN'T EXIST
• QUINTANA SUCKS

TLDR: You never really understand a person until you climb into his skin and walk around in it. ¬To Kill A Mockingbird

Not really sure what to make of your post, and whether you copied this from somewhere else or what. But maybe it is a good thing to go and read up on what makes a good/decent scientific study that will stand up to peer review and scrutiny.

 

Then consider this, everything in your life revolves around science. One eg where a lot of research is involved is medicine. The drugs you take to make you feel better again went through rigorous tests (studies, based on hypothesis) before you get to swallow that pill.

If one is dismissive of science when it gets uncomfortable because it challenges one's beliefs on one side, but gladly make use of technology in this modern day on the other - then that's ignorant and hypocritical. Where we are today is as a result of years of studies and data analysis from a wide field converging into what is in front of you today. It could have been crude, and rudimentary at one stage, but science evolved and the more we understand the less it is limited by shortcomings, and thus will continue to do so.

[Piston ZA]

That's right. People f$@%ing love science, until it doesn't conform with their beliefs. Then it's a conspiracy, or science is flawed, or scientists are wrong, or or ....

[Patchelicious]

To turn it around, I have never seen a flat-earther explain why NASA, the world's scientists and every government on earth, would lie that the earth is round. What is the motivation? Why would nations, even nations that are enemies, collude with each other to fool us? 

This is what I am asking.

[Piston ZA]

This is what I am asking.

Sorry, I read it as what are flat-earthers motivation.

[Paddaman]

A fact is an indisputable truth. 

Which means that for something to be a fact it has to be something really obvious and provable.

The reality is that in many cases (especially in logical inference) there is always the proverbial three legged dog, or black swan.  

Also facts tend to only exist in very controlled conditions, and in most cases need to be wrapped in a number of conditions and qualifiers.  Often these qualifiers are self evident and are assumed to be common knowledge.  (But common knowledge is no longer common).  This is where much of the pseudo-science, fake news and poor reasoning slips in.

 

Once a fact has been agreed upon (ie agreed to be indisputable) by means of rigorous testing (ie scientific method), it can be introduced to other facts.  Like building a lego model, facts can then be put together to build a "construct"or hypothesis.  This is then tested rigorously, before being passed off as truth.

 

Scientific method often breaks a problem down into small prove-able sub problems. It then proves each sub problem by means of an experiment or a range of other methods.  Once a sub problem is proven with a repeatable test, a fact can be declared.  Then from each proven fact a hypothesis is constructed which solves the problem . 

[Patchelicious]

Water in space.... not flat.