Tour de France 2018

[HDW]

Absolutely, nobody is forcing them to do it. But like I said, if the revenue models don't change, the sport as we know it will whither away over time. 

 

 

Greed is a disgusting thing. It's like any big corporation, eg Shoprite. The guys earning R2 300 a month for 6 days a week manual labour is what keeps the gears turning. If they decide to all leave, everyone up and to including the CEO are left neutered.

 

If the cyclists decide to give the Tour the finger (and for money they will), then the big dogs won't not get eg 80% of the income anymore, but 0%.

 

Stupid business model, I agree.

[Spurs]

This argument holds no water with me unfortunately.

 

Sport is entertainment. They earn insane salaries because we, the consumer, want more sport, we want it to be more exciting, we want the best to always participate etc..

 

We as the consumer create the demand and drive up salaries and value by driving up the importance of the players.

 

They will still earn in 5 to 8 years what a cleaner earns in his whole life at the current salaries. Most of these guys have no qualifications or higher education so have about as much potential value to to the economy as menial workers and lower level management. 

 

So you don't regard someone who provides entertainment to millions of people as a value adding member of society? 

 

Yeah I don't agree that they should be earning astronomical salaries, the fact of the matter is, the pie to be distributed is massive, and those who are putting in the hard yards to provide that entertainment aren't worthy of their piece of the pie?  We as consumers have pushed up the demand, and right now the rewards from that demand are shared amongst a select few.

 

Same as a Private company earning 200% profits and only giving the executives bonus's.

 

Professional sportsman's remuneration should be linked to the value that the provide to the business they are part of.  The business they are in has big numbers to throw around, so why shouldn't they get a piece of it just because it results in a much bigger salary than the average person?

[Vetplant]

The main reason I see in this is that a sports career is 5-15 years long, whereas a normal career would be 40-50 years long. No one would want to work for 5-15 years long, earning the same as a regular job, then have to begin a new career once they retire, starting from the bottom again.

 

Sure, they can easily transition into commentary and the like, but that's only a select few, the average professional does not have this option

THIS

 

Plus, look at where in the "career ladder" these guys are sitting, right at the top. Compare that to your career ladder and combine that with the short career duration and you have to start to wonder if they should not see a larger proportion of the revenue they are generating and risking their lives for.

[bertusras]

THIS

 

Plus, look at where in the "career ladder" these guys are sitting, right at the top. Compare that to your career ladder and combine that with the short career duration and you have to start to wonder if they should not see a larger proportion of the revenue they are generating and risking their lives for.

 

Yes, exactly. These are the best of the best. The same applies across all other industry.

[Plentipotential]

The main reason I see in this is that a sports career is 5-15 years long, whereas a normal career would be 40-50 years long.  No one would want to work for 5-15 years long, earning the same as a regular job, then have to begin a new career once they retire, starting from the bottom again.

 

Sure, they can easily transition into commentary and the like, but that's only a select few, the average professional does not have this option

 

Why not? Lots of people change careers. In fact more than lots. Anyway, what is a normal career these days?

[Spurs]

Why not? Lots of people change careers. In fact more than lots. Anyway, what is a normal career these days?

 

I guess what I mean is that it's not a choice for them, they are forced to change careers, they don't change careers based on other opportunities arising. 

 

Regarding normal career, in my argument I was referring to "Non-entertainment/sport" based careers

[Jewbacca]

So you don't regard someone who provides entertainment to millions of people as a value adding member of society? 

 

Yeah I don't agree that they should be earning astronomical salaries, the fact of the matter is, the pie to be distributed is massive, and those who are putting in the hard yards to provide that entertainment aren't worthy of their piece of the pie?  We as consumers have pushed up the demand, and right now the rewards from that demand are shared amongst a select few.

 

Same as a Private company earning 200% profits and only giving the executives bonus's.

 

Professional sportsman's remuneration should be linked to the value that the provide to the business they are part of.  The business they are in has big numbers to throw around, so why shouldn't they get a piece of it just because it results in a much bigger salary than the average person?

 

I think what I'm saying is that without the ridiculous demands the consumer (us) place on the system, these guys wouldn't be valuable.

 

Lets say you have 6 street sweepers from around the world. They are THE best. Or window dressers. THE best in the whole world. (Same or better qualifications as the cyclists). Saying they need to earn more because they are the best in the world is ridiculous. 

 

WE as consumers create their worth. THE best in a completely made up industry. It is a huge problem with us as a global society. Some guy finds some rad trails in a private valley, then suddenly it HAS to be an event. It can't just be something rad. Then the event NEEDS TV rights, then it HAS to have a series of events. Then there HAS to be a champion.

 

We see this as normal, but it's pretty messed up.  

 

By creating a revenue stream we create the need for money, investment and expected return. Entertainment becomes worth more than it needs to and grows and grows until boom! The public are now upset that a group of people have 'figured it out' and seem to monopolize that avenue of entertainment. 

 

We as consumers create the demand, with greed, massive expectation and the need to win/dominate, we create the dishonesty.

 

Come on.

 

Saying sports people deserve to be paid more than normal humans because they are the best in the world without being able to see how ridiculous that is shows you how far down the rabbit hole we have all fallen.

[Spurs]

I think what I'm saying is that without the ridiculous demands the consumer (us) place on the system, these guys wouldn't be valuable.

 

 

100% Agree.

 

Lets say you have 6 street sweepers from around the world. They are THE best. Or window dressers. THE best in the whole world. (Same or better qualifications as the cyclists). Saying they need to earn more because they are the best in the world is ridiculous. 

 

We find sport entertaining, and, well, at least I don't find street sweeping entertaining.  As we are entertained by the sport, yes, we generate an industry for the participants to make a career out of being professional athletes.  As I said, I don't support the massive salaries that the top of the top get, however the average athlete within a huge revenue generating league should get their piece of the pie.

 

I agree with much of your argument about these people not deserving more than normal humans, but then I don't think it's a sports argument, it's a general argument about bringing ALL people closer to the median salary to create equality.

 

My argument is more about the economics of the sports industry, capitalism at it's best.  

 

 

 

We as consumers create the demand, with greed, massive expectation and the need to win/dominate, we create the dishonesty.

 

 

Cheating and dishonesty was around long before the entertainment industry became what it is today.  Competition has always been there, and the primal want to win (money, status, sporting events) has always been there, honestly or not.

[kosmonooit]

From Cycling News

 

Lappartient was widely criticised for his comments, with several pro riders speaking out publicly on social media platforms.

 

"This is the biggest joke I've ever seen in cycling," wrote Katusha-Alpecin's Willie Smit, seemingly then making reference to the UCI President's public war of words with Sky manager Dave Brailsford. 

"Focus on making our sport a better place and create sustainability so that it benefits the sport & the people that have sacrificed so much for it, instead of having a personal feud!"

Lotto Soudal's Thomas De Gendt was rather more sardonic in his take.

"Only 65km stages, no training camps allowed, no dinners, no feedzones, only 2 bottles per day, max 2000 calories per day. Cyclists can't draft for longer than 20 seconds. Only 4 gears allowed. No brakes, F1 starts every day and pepper spray before each start."

Replying to De Gendt, Team Sky's Michal Kwiatkowski, a former UCI world champion, questioned whether Lappartient had a problem with dominance per se, or rather with Team Sky.

"Sagan dominance = exciting. Quick-Step classics dominance = exciting. BMC TTT dominance = exciting. Sky Grand Tours dominance = boring, so let's turn cycling upside down," he wrote.

"RCS does not promote Milan-San Remo through what they should do with first 250km of boring cycling. Instead they talk and promote the best things of this event and what's great in cycling."

UAE Team Emirates' Dan Martin, who was awarded the 'super combativity' prize at the Tour de France for his relentless attacking, also joined the debate. The Irishman suggested the UCI should do more to help those at the bottom, rather than restrict those at the top.

"Surely it would make more sense to help smaller budget teams get more money than to restrict income into the sport," he said. "Compared to football and formula 1 cycling is already a poor relation. More start money to smaller teams perhaps?"

[Christie]

^ great comment by Dan Martin, respect!

['Dale]

^ great comment by Dan Martin, respect!

True ????????

Great remark that can boost the sustainability of the sport and level the playing field somewhat ????????????

['Dale]

Apologies if repost ????

 

[mazambaan]

Has no one mentioned politicians in the over paid category. Cycling pales; IMHO of course.

[BigDL]

Umm

 

1m Euro a year? So over a million rand a month?

 

Since when was that NOT a decent salary?

 

70k Euro... Just under a million rand a year. Again, earning R81k zar a month. Again, when was this deamed an unreasonable wage?

 

Just because roundykickball players earn absolutely spastic amounts doesn't make it reasonable.

 

Whay should sportsing folk earn more than qualified engineers?

 

Let's not lose sight of reality. Expecting sportsmen to earn billions is ridiculous and just shows how far down the rabbit hole we have gone in idolizing normal humans. Actors, sportsing folk are all regarded as idols, role models etc but in reality they are just people.

 

It's a bit out of control how much money is spent on entertainment, be it sport or be it acting.

 

Make no mistake, sport is entertainment.

70k Euro is a decent salary, but not great. Someone at the top of their profession with a very limited time window to earn would definitely need to make more than this to build in a little fat for re-training into another profession etc once they retire from cycling.

[Jewbacca]

70k Euro is a decent salary, but not great. Someone at the top of their profession with a very limited time window to earn would definitely need to make more than this to build in a little fat for re-training into another profession etc once they retire from cycling.

But if they were 'the best' they would be on the Sky train earning 1m surely? 

 

Look, I get what everyone is saying, but I can't buy into it.

 

You're still saying things like 'top of their profession' which goes back to the fact they most of them are not educated and have no real world value other than the demand from the public for entertainment.

 

They can't fix your retaining wall, do your taxes, build a bridge or do anything that adds any actual value to the global economy other than in a made up revenue stream that only exists due to our need for competition and entertainment.

 

I place less value on top cyclists than I do one the guys who fix our roads and policemen/security who keep me safe.

 

I love cycling and I love watching the top pro's bash it out, but if it all stopped tomorrow it wouldn't really change anything other than a few million people missing a few sporting spectacles.

 

It's become so bad that when a sportsman at 23 years old says something, actual adults believe him and spout his limited views as fact. Jenny McCarthy, an ex porn star turned terrible actress/activist told the world vaccinations cause autism and a whole heap of people believed her.

 

Entertainment and those doing the entertaining are valued far higher than they should be.

 

But never mind... ASO, like fifa, like all major sports organising committes are crooks. Hell, the Olympic Organising committee usually comprises of thieves and embezzlers. It is hardly shocking and is nothing new.

[Vetplant]

Entertainment and those doing the entertaining are valued far higher than they should be.

 

.

I think I agree with you and at the same time disagree with you.

 

We as society place too much value on these individuals.

 

But then...

 

Compared to other entertaiment sources, I do think these cyclists should earn a larger portion of the revenue generated up to a point, then the rest of the revenue should be channeled to community upliftment projects like Qhubeka. Win-Win....