Garmin FTP Test

[Bateleur1]

Has anyone tried to do the Garmin FTP Test to determine their FTP?

 

I tried it this morning and felt that it was actually "difficult" in keeping the power readings between certain limits as you work through the test.  I somehow wonder if it would not have been better for a good warmup and then just hammer it flatout for 20 minutes.  I was expecting to be properly stuffed after the test.  Although I did get a new FTP value I somehow think I could do better.

 

Oh and I did it on the open road as I don't think my IDT is "smooth" enough to do a proper FTP.  I got a circuit that is fairly open and has almost no traffic to do the test.

[Opc_danny]

I havent tried the garmin ftp test but have read that its pretty grueling, will defo give it a try however with regards to garmin and ftp, i have done multiple rides with my road bike and power meter etc and for some reason the FTP under performance stats in the garmin connect app shows no data however the Vo2 shows data, no idea how to fix this. Anybody

 

Just an edit to the above, it seems like you need to do exactly what you have done in order for garmin connect to display data with regards to your ftp - i need to try this out asap.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Opc_danny

[Tristand]

Has anyone tried to do the Garmin FTP Test to determine their FTP?

 

I tried it this morning and felt that it was actually "difficult" in keeping the power readings between certain limits as you work through the test.  I somehow wonder if it would not have been better for a good warmup and then just hammer it flatout for 20 minutes.  I was expecting to be properly stuffed after the test.  Although I did get a new FTP value I somehow think I could do better.

 

Oh and I did it on the open road as I don't think my IDT is "smooth" enough to do a proper FTP.  I got a circuit that is fairly open and has almost no traffic to do the test.

Focus on your pedal stroke to smooth out the power values.

IE. up and over then scraping the mud off your shoe.

[Frosty]

I did it 2 days in a row, which should indicate that it's not as hard as the 20-min test. I was warmed up on both occasions, first for 35 mins, and the second time only 15 mins. The results were 2W apart, and about 20W below my last FTP test. I guess the drop between the last 20-min test and the two Garmin tests is justifiable given my lack of (cycle-specific) training, but... I doubt the test is accurate enough compared to the 20-min test.

 

With regards to keeping within the zones, I find it strange to see speed as one of the displayed metrics, rather than cadence. Luckily I have 2 devices, so one is on the test (speed, power, red-green-ref line) while the other shows 3s average power and cadence.

[Li Mu Bai]

Has anyone tried to do the Garmin FTP Test to determine their FTP?

 

I tried it this morning and felt that it was actually "difficult" in keeping the power readings between certain limits as you work through the test.  I somehow wonder if it would not have been better for a good warmup and then just hammer it flatout for 20 minutes.  I was expecting to be properly stuffed after the test.  Although I did get a new FTP value I somehow think I could do better.

 

Oh and I did it on the open road as I don't think my IDT is "smooth" enough to do a proper FTP.  I got a circuit that is fairly open and has almost no traffic to do the test.

 

 

Probably better to hit it as hard as you could for 20mins.

 

A pretty good ftp test is as follows on an idt:

Make sure you are well rested 3-4 days off before trying it

 

warm up thoroughly

start the interval at your current ftp setting (100%) effort and hold it there for 10 minutes (in theory you should be able to keep this up for 60mins if your FTP number is correct, so not that hard to do)

then increase your resistance by 5watts every 30 seconds for the next 10 minutes. try keep it up, it does get HARD.

 

Your average power for the 20min will give you your FTP . Reduce the total by 5% if done on an indoor trainer that produces realistic resistance, eg Direct drive trainer

Doing an outdoor FTP test is fine if you have a hill climb that lasts more than 20 mins and you can keep your power steady and increase it, but flats and downhills usually mess up your ability to keep your power at 100% or above if you are to improve your result.

 

Edit: as per Velouria comment below, reducing result is really based on a Direct Drive indoor trainer that produces realistic resistance and power wattages.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Li Mu Bai

[Li Mu Bai]

I did it 2 days in a row, which should indicate that it's not as hard as the 20-min test. I was warmed up on both occasions, first for 35 mins, and the second time only 15 mins. The results were 2W apart, and about 20W below my last FTP test. I guess the drop between the last 20-min test and the two Garmin tests is justifiable given my lack of (cycle-specific) training, but... I doubt the test is accurate enough compared to the 20-min test.

 

With regards to keeping within the zones, I find it strange to see speed as one of the displayed metrics, rather than cadence. Luckily I have 2 devices, so one is on the test (speed, power, red-green-ref line) while the other shows 3s average power and cadence.

If done properly the first time, you should not be able to do a FTP test 2 days in a row... (jelly legs)

Edited May 22, 2018 by Li Mu Bai

[Frosty]

If done properly the first time, you should not be able to do a FTP test 2 days in a row... (jelly legs)

That's the point of my post... the Garmin FTP test can't really be trusted. How was it possible that I could do the same test two days in a row? It was too easy, and not an FTP test.

 

My Garmin FTP test starts at 175 - 190W, then increases every 4 minutes. It stops after detecting it's FTP (presumably when the heart rate elevation trend changes from linear to exponential).

 

Compare that test to the one I did for the Discovery Vitality Elite Fitness test... where the watts start at 100W, then increase by 1W every 4 seconds. You go until you blow, or the cadence is below 70rpm at peak power. Peak power in this test is not FTP - but it does give other results that are useful.

 

Both aren't FTP tests!

[cadenceblur]

I usually just work on the 20 minutes - and try not to blow up too soon as that also messes up the whole thing, I like the sound of the first 10 minutes at current though.

 

I plan to another test soon as my last ( 8 weeks ago) was after a very long lay off and without any structured training so hoping to see some improvement!

[Opc_danny]

So does a 20 minute test sort of happen on a flat road or can it have a 2-3% rise and drop as you go.

[rudi-h]

Probably better to hit it as hard as you could for 20mins.

 

A pretty good ftp test is as follows on an idt:

Make sure you are well rested 3-4 days off before trying it

 

warm up thoroughly

start the interval at your current ftp setting (100%) effort and hold it there for 10 minutes (in theory you should be able to keep this up for 60mins if your FTP number is correct, so not that hard to do)

then increase your resistance by 5watts every 30 seconds for the next 10 minutes. try keep it up, it does get HARD.

 

Your average power for the 20min will give you your FTP . Reduce the total by 5% if done on an indoor trainer.

Doing an outdoor FTP test is fine if you have a hill climb that lasts more than 20 mins and you can keep your power steady and increase it, but flats and downhills usually mess up your ability to keep your power at 100% or above if you are to improve your result.

 

just for interest... is this method documented anywhere, or your own thing?  surely if you're going for max 20min power then you need to keep it steady right through to get to the biggest number?

[cadenceblur]

Yip - I would aim for steady effort - I've done some tests before where I paced myself poorly and faded terribly the second half due to overcooking it early on. It's like a time trial in my books 

It also helps if you have an idea of your "base" I guess.

 

 I just finished my latest test - kept a steady pace throughout and managed a 5% improvement from previous 8 weeks ago.

[Velouria]

Reduce the total by 5% if done on an indoor trainer.

Ok, I'll bite. Why reduce the total for the indoor test?

 

There is plenty of research to indicate that doing an indoor test results in a lower value.

 

"There could be a number of reasons for this, but a good one to look to first is thermoregulation. About 75% of your body’s energy consumption when cycling goes to cooling, or maintaining your body’s temperature. When you’re outdoors this is better achieved thanks to wind and sometimes temperature. But indoors you’re reliant on a fan or another cooling mechanism to keep your body from having to work so hard to stay cool."

 

http://blog.trainerroad.com/ftp-testing-outdoors-vs-indoors/

 

Moral of the story - use an indoor FTP for indoor riding, and an outdoor FTP for riding outdoors:

 

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/adjusting-your-functional-threshold-power-for-indoor-riding/

 

If you need a video:

 

[Li Mu Bai]

just for interest... is this method documented anywhere, or your own thing?  surely if you're going for max 20min power then you need to keep it steady right through to get to the biggest number?

 

To answer your question:

The test I described  was suggested to me through a professional cycling coach.

It was done on a Cycleops Phantom 3 indoor power trainer. It is based on a fitness value (my current FTP) that was previously established (can even be through Garmins basic test) a starting point if you wish. Holding your max power for 20 minutes steady for will also give this value.

Mentally riding at your hardest for 20minutes is difficult. If you start out too hard, after 2 minutes you will have muscle burn and 4 minutes you will be jelly and unable to keep it steady for the remainder and the test is a fail.

If you go at what you think you can manage and reach 20minute, you may well have (and most likely will have) underestimated what your actual ability is. It is easy to CHEAT such as slow down half way through to recover for a bit and then go hard again towards the end.

 

Starting out hard but steady for 10minutes, allows your mind to settle into a steady rhythm, clear all those negative thoughts of pain and suffering, stop over thinking (go meditative).

Then by raising your effort level in a sustained manner slowly for the next 10 minutes, this allows you to get beyond the point you would have assumed was your max (people hate pain - the bodys reaction to pushing the limits). There will be a point before you reach the end of the second 10minutes that you feel you absolutely cannot go harder - hold it there then and complete the test. Your end average power value is your best max value, and a pretty true reflection of what you can achieve.

 

Your heart rate will sky rocket steadily throughout the test so isnt a suitable value to consider.

 

What do you now do with this FTP value?

You use this best max value (your FTP) to train at the correct intensity, doing endurance rides, Tempo intervals, Threshold intervals, and even VO2max Intervals, to make yourself fitter (in effect if done properly, you are raising the point at which your body can clear lactic acid build up in your muscles).

You should be testing FTP every once in a while to see if your training sessions are in fact working or not. And to note improvements

 

It is important to do the test in a fresh recovered state, not after a weekend of long hard riding, as your body wont have recovered enough for the test to be accurate. Make sure you have had enough sleep too, have fueled throughout the day properly too, are not dehydrated either etc, as this will mess up your test.

 

The nice thing about using FTP is that it is YOUR PERSONAL value allowing you to train at your OWN specific level or ability, not following other peoples workout that apply only to them.

 

pm me your email address if you would like some reading info.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Li Mu Bai

[Li Mu Bai]

So does a 20 minute test sort of happen on a flat road or can it have a 2-3% rise and drop as you go.

Keeping a consistent power output on the road is tricky because every flat and downslope means you have to work much harder to hold the required power value. In a controlled environment such as on a Direct drive powerbike or similar indoor trainer, you can maintain and increase power output much easier.

 

Getting onto a sustained climb (such as the Barberton MTB marathon) is useful as you have a steady power output and makes the test more accurate. If you had a dead pan flat road that is long enough and lets you get to your max, this would be great, but i suspect it may be a very looooong stretch as you may well be riding well above 45km/h haha.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Li Mu Bai

[Li Mu Bai]

Ok, I'll bite. Why reduce the total for the indoor test?

 

There is plenty of research to indicate that doing an indoor test results in a lower value.

 

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/adjusting-your-functional-threshold-power-for-indoor-riding/

Noted

I agree that it is much harder producing same wattages indoors than outdoors on certain trainers. The intensity indoors feels very different. As defined in the article, it depends on the type of indoor trainer you use.

 

Using a Direct Drive trainer as I have (Cycleops Phantom 3 and Phantom 5, Hammer), I have found power produced very similar as to what I can do and hold on my bike in a race for example. My Cycleops Supermagneto together with my rear wheel powertap on my bike work pretty well too. The Supermagneto can really generate quite a high  resistance.

 

I suppose Subtracting 5% after brings it back to what is realistic outdoors v indoors for a Phantom 3 powerbike. for holding that power for 60 minutes, not 20minutes (you do get tired afterall, as pointed out by Jehosafat below)

 

Does make sense establishing an indoor and an outdoor FTP for your specific IDT and bike.

 

If you are doing serious indoor power training, your IDT will no doubt need to be up to date tech, with cooling fans in your studio etc etc

Rollers are not useful at all. (for testing FTP that is )

Edited May 23, 2018 by Li Mu Bai

[Jakkals.]

 

Rollers are not useful at all.

askuus, maybe not for ftp testing but definitely useful.